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  1. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 12:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just a quick question for you, what do you think is sparring? Because I think you are in a little blind rage here, clinging on to something that is not there but you want it to be there.

    Lets look at sparring in MT for example, what they do? Right, they attack at will with random technique? Oh wait that is the same I just explained... how come that it is not sparring? Because you say so?
    What is wrong with you? Honestly? Why you try to go all out on this?
    You either give the stuff I say a fair try or not, you instead go and say no you don't have to because you did something "that is like that" in judo? That my friend is where you are so dead wrong.
    I tell you were the difference is (in this case), his fingers are bent and lay flat on your skull, you are with me? Okay bend your finger and lay them on the table... you still with me? Go a heand and form a loose, very loose hammer fist with the other hand and just let it drop from a few inches... you did that? You noticed something? Right, this is different than the grip break stuff you do at judo, because in this case his fingers can't go any where they are stuck between the skull and the downward force of the hand. This is pure physics, no compliance, no nothing else... but hey, go on with your rampage.

    Oh and one thing that always should be in your mind, how do you train a throw at judo? You start with full resistance all the way? Full posture and grip fight, while your partner is trying to throw you? No? Hmm makes you wonder why the stuff works? This is how you train, not how you apply it.
    Oh right you try it in competition or randori... now you say I don't do sparring--> and we are back at the start where I asked you what is the difference. There is none, clean and simple. But go on rant about it.

    Honestly I don't know why you think you know everything and can talk smack about it. You are one of those people who think they know better but that is where you are wrong.
    I know that every system has flaws, because I train(ed) them and non is perfect and you know what? I can deal with it and still can train the system, look past some stupid technique and take what is good and what works. You can't do that? Well I don't care at this point.
    Do you see me talking smack about for example Judo? Just because you can't throw low kicks and elbows? No, I take it for what it is and train it and take what I can use.



    PS: On your wrist lock rampage, ever checked for example the Spanish police? The way they "transport"/"control" people? I wonder why they use a wrist lock?... so much for your theory, try it first resent it afterwards.


    If you want to discuss this further open a thread, get this split or PM be my guest I have nothing to hide and I can back my stuff up.
    You claim bring a claim, You have to prove it, BS rule.
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo
  2. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 4:38pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    Just a quick question for you, what do you think is sparring?
    Not this.
    YouTube - Aikijujutsu - Me and Chancey randori


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  3. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 4:49pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am glad, something we can agree on ...
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo
  4. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 5:00pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And my goal is not to submit my instructor, it is to get better on the ground, therefor I need to find a way how to transition from guard to anything else.
    I only know very few ground techniques. I know the “basics” (how to pull guard and do a triangle, an armbar, RNC etc. . I can pass guard “so so” and I know some Joint Locks from Hapkido/AK or other MAs). But when ever I am parred up against my instructor (during normal classes we start from the knees) I end up on my back and my only “hope” is that he slips and I can pull of a triangle. This worked for 2 3 times but now he knows this is like my “only move” on the back and I have no chance to work my way out.
    So what can I do to transition from being on my back, having him in guard to any “better” position, where I am the “active” part? This I could handle better (at least I think).
    ______


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  5. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 5:19pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    2) There was this girl taking her first class and she was wearing these tight pants, like bellet or what ever. So we are told to do stretching, leg split facing each other and help to stretch. She is still wearing those pants, they were so tight, I could tell she was shaved. Hardest 3 min. in my life, trying to NOT get a hard on.
    That reminds me, I am in no way good at the ground game so my only knowledge is from JJJ and some Judo newaze and eddy bravos youtube stuff
    I have seen the rubber guard for a few times on youtube and figured that it would be great to control people. I try it next lesson and it works, close guard to mission control, easy. In stead of going to omaplata/sweep him or shooting for a triangle, I try a gogoplata.
    Guess what, the guy is totally shocked to see my leg coming up his back so far and going over his head, I get the gogoplata... I just stopped rolling and sat there totally overwhelmed that this move worked. I never made it work again though, don't know why ...
    More putting in the Naked in "RNC" :toothy2:
    _____


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  6. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 5:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like the effort you put into all this (and taking it all out of context), makes me feel special... almost like the pink snowflake you are...
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo
  7. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 7:37pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    Just a quick question for you, what do you think is sparring? Because I think you are in a little blind rage here, clinging on to something that is not there but you want it to be there.
    Sparring is two people fighting with no predetermined winner. In most effective arts, the technique set for the drill is determined not by what is allowed, but by what acts are prohibited. (Shodokan/Tomiki Aikido is one of those oddities of arts where only permitted techniques are allowed).

    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. The video Hedge posted shows 1 on 1 random attacks. You said nothing about continuous fighting, and mentioning "random attacks" rather than a ruleset listing what's allowed and what's prohibited is far more common with aikido "randori" than sparring in effective arts. This is reinforced by your mention of 2 on 1 "random attacks" - this tends to lead to a swift beating for the one in any sane system. Does it in yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    You either give the stuff I say a fair try or not, you instead go and say no you don't have to because you did something "that is like that" in judo? That my friend is where you are so dead wrong.
    I tell you were the difference is (in this case), his fingers are bent and lay flat on your skull, you are with me?
    They're bent, yet lying flat? Interesting. Care to explain this further? I'm unable to make my hand lie flat when the fingers are bent.

    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    Okay bend your finger and lay them on the table... you still with me? Go a heand and form a loose, very loose hammer fist with the other hand and just let it drop from a few inches... you did that? You noticed something?
    Yup, there wasn't even any pain, let alone something requiring me to move anything. I curled my fingers roughly into a fist such as I'd curl round a tuft of hair. If this isn't what you meant... well, your description was really pretty vague, and this is a technique meant to be employed when you can't see your opponent's hand.

    While I'm at it, your original technique mentioned interlacing fingers for this. Do I have to go into why interlacing your fingers to clasp your hands together and lifting them behind your head is a hilariously bad idea?

    (Not got it? Here's a hint: imagine the guy lets go of your hair. What might he do next?)

    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    Right, this is different than the grip break stuff you do at judo, because in this case his fingers can't go any where they are stuck between the skull and the downward force of the hand. This is pure physics, no compliance, no nothing else... but hey, go on with your rampage.
    You must be imagining some fairly weird hand position. That, and your opponent not reacting at all to you clasping your hands together and putting them behind your head. This is really getting pretty odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    Honestly I don't know why you think you know everything and can talk smack about it. You are one of those people who think they know better but that is where you are wrong.
    I know that every system has flaws, because I train(ed) them and non is perfect and you know what? I can deal with it and still can train the system, look past some stupid technique and take what is good and what works. You can't do that? Well I don't care at this point.
    Most of your training is in arts even you acknowledge have large amounts of ****. While every system has flaws, some systems are much more flawed than others. When you're dealing with systems which are known to err on the heavily flawed side and you're defending techniques that you don't have video of decent fighters using in a competitive context, you're going to have to go the extra mile to prove you're not talking out your ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    PS: On your wrist lock rampage, ever checked for example the Spanish police? The way they "transport"/"control" people? I wonder why they use a wrist lock?... so much for your theory, try it first resent it afterwards.
    Because police come in large numbers and are generally armed, idiot. Police do not generally go into fights one on one and try to apply wristlocks. Again, this has been gone over many times on Bullshido before.

    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    You claim bring a claim, You have to prove it, BS rule.
    You're the one bringing the claim. Someone made a perfectly sensible comment that a standing wristlock using the head was a bullshit technique. This would fit with everything else commonly said here about standing wristlocks. You had to differ.

    When a technique is not commonly used in a competitive environment, and contains elements that are generally considered highly ineffective, it's not the person who's calling it ineffective who has something to prove; it's the person who wishes to claim otherwise.
  8. blizzaard is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2008 8:35am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Taekwon-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    See I don't exactly know what technique you are talking about (since you don't discribe it so well) but if it is the technique I think it is, it works. Here is why.
    - The attacker is in front of you grabbing your hair
    1) you grab his hand by smashing down your two on his bend fingers, you will dislocate or breaks his fingers, trust me, I have been an accidental victim to this, hurts like hell and I couldn't use two fingers for a week
    2) you bend slightly forward and into your attacker, putting pressure on his wrist, forcing him to go down to his knees and/or push his hips back, in order to release the pressure on his wrist
    3) this will prevent him from kneeing you in the face, you then push his hands further down towards the ground (out of your hair) while keeping the pressure on his wrist
    4) you now apply knees or kicks to his face, push kick him backwards and either mount+gnp or soccer kick him for a little wile in the nuts or you retreat from the threat

    So if you want to come across all cool and talk about stupid technique, pick one that is stupid, there are millions, yet you managed to pick one that actually works. Well done, I will neg rep you for your stupidity after posting this.
    We were not told to push into the attacker, and this was practiced on resisting opponents - people put it on me, and it never felt like I had to let go for any reason.

    On a side note, you interlaced your fingers over his wrist, and put pressure down, which in no way was supposed to affect the fingers. And to clarify, I'm not a member of this board because I feel the need for +rep, as I don't necessarily deem it important. I enjoy reading the articles and like to contribute a little something occasionally. No need to jump all over me for making a single post.

    Anyway as far as I'm concerned this "argument" is over as the thread is being hijacked by it and there's not really a need for it because I'm not into the e-dick comparing contest thing. So if you feel like you're right, that's fine, you're right, I don't care.
  9. Tonuzaba is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2008 9:00am

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     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n
    See I don't exactly know what technique you are talking about (since you don't discribe it so well) but if it is the technique I think it is, it works. ... Well done, I will neg rep you for your stupidity after posting this.
    OK, f4n4n, I wanna stick to the topics of you critisizing a N00b who disliked a hair pull defense. So just to make it clear, are we talking about something like this?:
    YouTube - Women Only! Hair Pull Defense

    I personally believe in 2 types of very efficient, time- and battlefield-proven defenses against hair pulling:
    and




    On a sidenote, does anyone else hear "christ, christ" in what the girl in the yt video moans while executing the technique?
    Last edited by Tonuzaba; 8/01/2008 9:05am at .

    CLICK & WATCH
    :
    I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal
  10. M.C. is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2008 9:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist
    Sparring is two people fighting with no predetermined winner. In most effective arts, the technique set for the drill is determined not by what is allowed, but by what acts are prohibited. (Shodokan/Tomiki Aikido is one of those oddities of arts where only permitted techniques are allowed).

    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. The video Hedge posted shows 1 on 1 random attacks. You said nothing about continuous fighting, and mentioning "random attacks" rather than a ruleset listing what's allowed and what's prohibited is far more common with aikido "randori" than sparring in effective arts. This is reinforced by your mention of 2 on 1 "random attacks" - this tends to lead to a swift beating for the one in any sane system. Does it in yours?
    As I said, you didn't want to hear about it and you assumed, that is what I was telling you.
    There are different sparrings in different systems.
    There is randori in Judo (only stand up, only ground or both) I think you know what is allowed there and what not.
    Then there is TKD. It depends on what we are training, when we train for olympic we use the olympic rule set, when we "normal spar" it is more like kyukushin only that we don't do the head kicks in training, we pull them before we hit, else, low kicks, kicks to the body, fists to the body. I think it is understood.

    The 2on1 you are probably referring to (we do this in Allkampf only) it is almost always that the defender will lose, not always but most time, it is about trying to keep yourself up, be aware where your attackers are and what you/they are doing. As I said, it gets rough. And the course of the sparring highly depends on if the people involved are interested in some normal "fight" or more fight with some "technique", it also can vary depending on what the teacher wants people to do, restrain somebody on the ground or force him into a corner... stuff like that.
    We don't kick in the groin and no head kicks/strikes allowed for the defender, the attacker can try strikes to the head but is supposed to pull when they would hit (well sometimes they hit... it happens)
    They're bent, yet lying flat? Interesting. Care to explain this further? I'm unable to make my hand lie flat when the fingers are bent.
    they are bent but the contact part lies on the surface (your skull) if I had a camera(video) I would tape it and upload but I don't have one, we can go over this thing for a long time and hopefully at the end you will agree or don't but instruction a technique via internet is not a good thing.
    Yup, there wasn't even any pain, let alone something requiring me to move anything. I curled my fingers roughly into a fist such as I'd curl round a tuft of hair. If this isn't what you meant... well, your description was really pretty vague, and this is a technique meant to be employed when you can't see your opponent's hand.
    See above, I try to get a camera and videotape the technique so you can understand it...
    While I'm at it, your original technique mentioned interlacing fingers for this. Do I have to go into why interlacing your fingers to clasp your hands together and lifting them behind your head is a hilariously bad idea? (Not got it? Here's a hint: imagine the guy lets go of your hair. What might he do next?)
    You must be imagining some fairly weird hand position. That, and your opponent not reacting at all to you clasping your hands together and putting them behind your head. This is really getting pretty odd.
    why behind my head? I think you have a wrong idea of the technique, again, it is not easy to explain a technique over the internet...

    Most of your training is in arts even you acknowledge have large amounts of ****. While every system has flaws, some systems are much more flawed than others. When you're dealing with systems which are known to err on the heavily flawed side and you're defending techniques that you don't have video of decent fighters using in a competitive context, you're going to have to go the extra mile to prove you're not talking out your ass.
    Tell me, in which system you are allowed to pull hair? And how many fighters do have hair to pull? I see your point, it is valid but you see my point as well? How can I provide a video for a move that counters a move is not allowed in a "normal competition"? Don't get all witty on me here and I know this is kind of apples and oranges but you don't doubt the effectiveness of a kick to the balls do you? Because you either have seen it or experienced it for yourself (one way or an other). Well I did with this move.

    Because police come in large numbers and are generally armed, idiot. Police do not generally go into fights one on one and try to apply wristlocks. Again, this has been gone over many times on Bullshido before.
    You reading something into my statement that I did not said. I said they use a standing wrist lock instead the arm behind your back thingy other police forces do, and they are successful with it, that was all I am saying but again, you might "want to" see something/read something I don't say or not that way.
    You're the one bringing the claim. Someone made a perfectly sensible comment that a standing wristlock using the head was a bullshit technique. This would fit with everything else commonly said here about standing wristlocks. You had to differ.
    Because it is not a wristlock (when the technique is performed the way I said, hence I said in my initial comment
    See I don't exactly know what technique you are talking about (since you don't discribe it so well) but if it is the technique I think it is, it works.
    If he was talking about a different technique that is fine, he just had to say: "we did something different", yes I came off a little attacking but I explained/ apologized for that already) it is a transition move to get your attacker either more towards the ground in order to knee/kick him or to prevent (and here comes my critique in my initial post) the attacker from kicking/knee you in the face. That was my point.
    When a technique is not commonly used in a competitive environment, and contains elements that are generally considered highly ineffective, it's not the person who's calling it ineffective who has something to prove; it's the person who wishes to claim otherwise.
    Once again, a counter to an illegal move...
    I try to videotape the technique or else and prove it.

    For the hundredth time, it is not a wrist lock, you grab his extended hand/arm by using his fingers+hand to create pressure on the wrist/hand/fingers and just push it down and into him, you don't hold him like that or anything, you just force him into this position


    PS: I found a krav maga video that has a similar technique (it is not the exact but similar!!!) just that we all know what we are talking about. (first 30 seconds)
    The difference is that in the technique I am talking you don't bend over like this but only until you look at his shoes, then pull the hand out of your hair and into your attacker as mentioned before.

    YouTube - Krav Maga for Women : Defend Against The Hair Grab for Women

    @ Blizzard, again I was kind of unfriendly that day, I am sorry...
    Last edited by M.C.; 8/01/2008 9:51am at .
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo

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