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  1. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 6:31pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with this. LPR didn't have the same hook-ups in other locales that it had in Britain. There must have been some other overriding reason that caused LPR to die and Queensberry to reign supreme.
    Can you define what you mean by "hook-ups"? The moral and legal furor surrounding BKB was very much international.

    Personally speaking, I think the timed rounds of Queenberry may have had something to do with it. Instead of the 30 seconds of rest that could have happened whenever a boxer got winded, Queensberry rules stated that for 3 minutes boxers had to fight.
    I did note the introduction of timed rounds as a factor, but LPR prizefights really were casualties of the obsession with public decency and morality that characterized the later 19th century. The prohibitions cited the degrading spectacle of boxers continuing to fight with multiple lacerations and fractures and the lawlessness associated with the professional fight game (drunkenness, rioting, prostitution, etc.)

    IMO, I think LPR with timed rounds could prove popular. Fighters could crosstrain in judo or old-style Cornish wrestling. There'd be less knock outs, but there'd also be more aesthetically pleasing knockdowns.
    Are you picturing literal bare-knuckle fights, or would the boxers be wearing MMA-style gloves?
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2011 6:35pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I predict the match will start with some old timey looking mulling, then someone will eat a straight left to the face and it'll turn into unscientific hooks, then to a chancery/seize and fib loop until someone throws in the towel.
  3. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2011 8:45am


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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I predict the match will start with some old timey looking mulling, then someone will eat a straight left to the face and it'll turn into unscientific hooks, then to a chancery/seize and fib loop until someone throws in the towel.
    Which is actually pretty accurate to some of the recorded LPR fights. ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  4. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2011 10:12am


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    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    I did note the introduction of timed rounds as a factor, but LPR prizefights really were casualties of the obsession with public decency and morality that characterized the later 19th century. The prohibitions cited the degrading spectacle of boxers continuing to fight with multiple lacerations and fractures and the lawlessness associated with the professional fight game (drunkenness, rioting, prostitution, etc.)
    Judging by what the period authors themselves wrote, I'd have to agree that public sentiment that Bare Knuckle Boxing was barbaric and uncivilized was a large driving force in the phase out of LPR.

    A general survey of period boxing manuals shows that heavy use of Apologetics in introductory forewords was common and, in some cases, rather blunt about the prevailing attitude of anti-Boxing sentiment. I believe that it is linked to the growing Temperance Movement, or at least had strong ties to base level driving reasons.

    In particular, a look at the forewords of "The Modern Art of Boxing," "The Art and Practice of Boxing," and "The Hand-book to Boxing."

    The Modern Art of Boxing:
    The arguments against learning this science* seem indeed to arise in a great measure (to quote the words of a writer on the subject) from not making a proper distinction between the inhumanity of premeditated boxing matches, and the propriety, and often the necessity, of engaging in a casual encounter.

    Whether pitched battles ought to be encouraged, may well be made the subject of dispute; but no doubt can surely be entertained, by those who reflect for a moment on the subject, of the propriety of learning the art of Self Defence, when it is well known that peaceable behavior is no security against rudeness and insult. Every benefit has its attendant evil. This undoubtedly holds good with respect to a knowledge of Boxing.

    Many persons there are, whom a consciousness of excelling in the manual defence would render insolent and abusive. But even this will not do away the arguments in its favour; for it is an unjust conclusion to say, that anything which is of public or private utility should be suppressed, merely because it has been made an improper use of.
    The Art and Practice of Boxing:
    IT cannot admit of a doubt that the practice of Boxing, when carried to excess, has had an injurious effect upon public morals, and has therefore been discouraged by moralists of very high reputation. But it is well known that there is hardly any human art that has not been abused, and to which objections of a similar kind have not been made. When kept within moderate bounds, a knowledge of the art of Self-Defence may be proved to be accompanied with numerous advantages.
    Hand-book to Boxing:
    I cannot but view with extreme concern and dismay the stringent measures adopted by the police authorities, in order to suppress all exhibitions of Pugilism, and to exterminate the brave old English custom of Boxing from the land of its birth and paternity.
    However, you can see similar expressions and hints of such in many other boxing manuals, such as Billy Edwards' "The Art of Boxing and Manual of Training" when he writes,
    "Much, very much, has been said against this truly manly and athletic exercise, but if the science of boxing was more generally practiced throughout the country, and the various contests were governed by a set of rules that strictly and strongly precluded even the possibility of anything like brutality,"
    and a bit earlier in his text
    "but taking it for granted that having made yourself thoroughly at home with the regular methods, you are naturally anxious to know something about modes of fighting that are confined, I am happy to say, only to the prize ring proper."
    You see these sort of things in most of the boxing manuals which were written during the transition form LPR to MoQ or which predate MoQ.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  5. Mello is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2011 12:52pm


     Style: Learning

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To be honest i always wished sanshou used mma style gloves. If this revival catches on i might try it out.
  6. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 10:35am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gunn won the fight with a TKO in round 3. Here's the full story:

    http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/...reknuckle-bout

    Hopefully, some video will come out at some point.
  7. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2011 10:44am

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    In the first sanctioned bareknuckle boxing match since 1889, Bobby “The Celtic Warrior” Gunn defeated boxer Rich Stewart via KO in round 3. With the win Gunn claimed the vacant bareknuckle boxing title that was last held by John L. Sullivan.
    I understand that this is PR puffery, but given that the recent match was basically Queensberry rules without gloves (timed rounds rather than rounds decided by knockdowns/throws, no standing grappling or throwing allowed), I think they have a lot of gall to be making that claim. Sullivan fought under London Prize Ring rules.
  8. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2011 1:07pm


     Style: Bowie

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    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    I understand that this is PR puffery, but given that the recent match was basically Queensberry rules without gloves (timed rounds rather than rounds decided by knockdowns/throws, no standing grappling or throwing allowed), I think they have a lot of gall to be making that claim. Sullivan fought under London Prize Ring rules.
    +!

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
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