Nick Lowery, 8th dan in Judo?

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 6:12pm

There will be much more to come.

**Larus marinus** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 7:01pm

Hmmm. I thought that the inside of that dojo looked familiar.

Have you seen this thread from last year?
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=92874&page=1

There was some discussion, but it never really went anywhere. Dunno exactly where you're going with this thread, but you might find something useful on there...

How's things btw? I your username come up in a bumped thread yesterday and I thought to myself 'I wonder how that guy's doing?'.

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 7:08pm

Well, as we go along we are going to see we have to call Bullshido on an entire Judo ranking body, USJA. Because as in the days of Phil Porter, USJA has returned to selling high rank to unqualified people.

This all came out because I am helping Mark Hunter raise the Eagle Camp from the dead. This guy was recommended to us, and when I called Bullshido things hit the fan. Lets just begin with this, 1992 Shodan, NOTHING on the record before. 11 years later, 8th dan, NOTHING in between, BUT, USJA did issue the ranks....

This will be interesting....

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 7:10pm

Just so you know Mtripp the website is wonky. So, if there isn't much help or conversation it is due mainly to technical issues. The website is being very finicky.

**BKR** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 7:10pm

Originally Posted by Mtripp

There will be much more to come.

Welcome back, hope you are in good health.

LOL, Mark, this guy is old news. Came out of the Karl Geis Wind_ tradition of dojo and students, some of whom I've had in person dealings with, as in on the tatami.

We've discussed him in JF, he actually posted there. Decent fellow when all is said and done.

So what's the problem, you don't think he should be 8th dan, he promoted himself to 8th dan, or his Judo sucks? Or all three most likely?

Ben

Welcome back, hope you are in good health.

**BKR** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 7:12pm

Originally Posted by Mtripp

Well, as we go along we are going to see we have to call Bullshido on an entire Judo ranking body, USJA. Because as in the days of Phil Porter, USJA has returned to selling high rank to unqualified people.

This all came out because I am helping Mark Hunter raise the Eagle Camp from the dead. This guy was recommended to us, and when I called Bullshido things hit the fan. Lets just begin with this, 1992 Shodan, NOTHING on the record before. 11 years later, 8th dan, NOTHING in between, BUT, USJA did issue the ranks....

This will be interesting....

That is something unusual for USJA?

Some of the other Wind_ folks I've run into probably outrank me by now, and when I knew them back in the '90s they in my opinion should not even have been shodan. All USJA promotions.

Ben

**Larus marinus** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 7:13pm

Oh yeah, I remember now why I stopped paying attention to that thread. I read this post from Mr. Lowery in which he made clear that the '1.5yrs to shodan' thing on the website was a misunderstanding and then in light of the statement that any ranks issued were in-house dojo rank, I kinda went 'meh'.:
http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topi...3&#entry539713

Edit:
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3...php?f=3&t=1220

Originally Posted by Nick Lowery on that thread

Windsong Dojo is a completely independant martial arts school which issues its own ranking credentials -- though several of our members, myself included, hold very significant rank with UJSA, and any of our members are free to join any ranking organization that they choose (Usja, Usji, Usjf -etc.), no one will ever be required to join any outside organizantion; consequently, the dojo is not a sanctioned club. In accord with our independant status, our ranking standards and criteria are our own and are not based upon the the modern competitive point system, but rather reflect the traditional values and methods of our dojo and the lineage of training we derive from.
If our members choose to pursue competition then dojo members should be advised that joining one of the national sanctioning organizating may be required by the tournement officials before you are allowed to participate and your rank may or may not be recognized.
Such are the vagueries of the national and regional systems that Greg Ables, one of our most long standing members and well recognized as one of the top competitiors of the state and the region in the 80's and 90's spent several years competing as a white belt in local tournements. His winning record eventually convinced the local officails to recognize the legitimacy of his dojo rank.

This sounds as though it could turn out to be a big one...

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 12:12am

Mark,

Welcome back. Long time no hear from.

A long while back, I sent you a PM about Karl Geis, asking what you thought.

If you would be so kind, would you give your thoughts in this thread. I know he competed in the (50/60s?) and you had no bad words then. Anything changed your mind?

I know Nick to be a good person, totally without a bs bone in his body. His aikido and judo blended like no other person I've felt, but then again, I'm mediocre at best.

from

http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topi.../page__st__108

I agree my grade is not of any importance -- the last grades that held any personal significance to me were indeed the the godan in judo and the rokudan in aikido -- one could say i identify with these ranks and they make sense to me and so i am happy to advertise them

-- but as a strict matter of record and so as to avoid inevitable confusion, i should clarify that a few years ago at the instigation of other parties beyond my control, the usja did rank me as hachidan in judo (which is flattering but which i find personally absurd -- i know a few hachidans and i dont think i'm one of them) -- other aikido ranking outfits have followed suit in similar veins but again i stress that to me, such rank remains absurd

someday if i am lucky enough to live so long i may grow to accept it

Why the thread?

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 3:27am

Well I've been saying these guys were iffy for a while now, but they've always had backers from American Judo.

Be interesting to see how this pans out.

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 4:01am

Well, what got me on this is that his own comments are out of sync with the facts. If the shodan was "off" and he admits it, then WFT is up with the 8th dan?

As for USJA, lets be clear. In this case, and likely many more (I suspect we are going to learn why Pedro and Anna Marie left) they are violating their own guidelines for rank. There is no way this guy gets an 8th dan BY USJA RULES! We are still gathering evidence but I am asking for one bit of info that no one cam seem to find, I want to see the test paper, ANY test paper. Not the one that tells you how much money to send in, but the one that is used to test and grade your skills.

My 6th dan test papers are on record, and I took the whole damn test....

...how come its so hard to find other peoples tests?

I will go to the Geis thread and answer you there.