Let's take a credential check and turn it into Strawman Soapboxes.

**Warchief** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 11:35am

Originally Posted by Matt Phillips

USJA is not the NGB. This is an argument (and a good one) for going to USA Judo with this.

Not really sure what you expect USA Judo to do regarding this discussion. If Mr. Lowry was promoted by USJA promotion board and ratified by the USJA BOD, USA Judo has no grounds for any action. He was then promoted by the USJA not USA Judo. USJA has the inherent right to promote its members without any discussion or interference from USA Judo. USA Judo only comes into the picture if a USJA member desires Kodokan rank.

The correct and proper course of action to resolve the question is to initiate an ethics investigation with the USJA Standards and Ethics committee. This is always the correct procedure if there is a question regarding the validity of a USJA member's rank. The requesting individual does have to be a USJA member to request an ethics investigation. Mr. Tripp is an active USJA member and can request an investigation be done if he so desires.

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 11:56am

Originally Posted by Warchief

First, Phil Porter was not forced out of the USJA due to selling inflated rank. Mr. Porter was removed from office for failing to meet his fiduciary obligations as President of the USJA BOD.

What was this failure to meet or maintain his fiduciary obligation to the Board?

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 12:09pm

Originally Posted by Snake Plissken

What was this failure to meet or maintain his fiduciary obligation to the Board?

I believe that is code for "he pocketed the money"

**Snake Plissken** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 12:27pm

Originally Posted by Matt Phillips

I believe that is code for "he pocketed the money"

Well....he was placed in a position of trust and obviously violated that trust inherent with that position, so I would like to know what failure was attributed to his leaving. It is possibly germane to this discussion.
If not, IIF can cull it.

**BKR** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 1:09pm

Originally Posted by Snake Plissken

Well....he was placed in a position of trust and obviously violated that trust inherent with that position, so I would like to know what failure was attributed to his leaving. It is possibly germane to this discussion.
If not, IIF can cull it.

It's not germane to this "discussion" at all.

**BKR** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 1:19pm

Originally Posted by Matt Phillips

Hm, fair enough, but for the actual club members outside insurance isn't getting them on the mat when they go to shiai, right? Geis would still have to have all his guys join JA from the get go (or at least early on in the kyu ranks). Am I missing something?

Members who wanted to compete in sanctioned shiai would have to have either USJA, JF, or USA Judo (Texas Judo Inc) memberships. I competed with some of Geis's students many times, at sanctioned events, so they must have had memberships. Those could have been purchased at any time or bought at the events themselves.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 1:28pm

Originally Posted by Matt Phillips

[FONT=Times-Roman][LEFT]The group A's are not NGBs, they are "grassroots organizations". Only USA Judo belongs to the continental union and the IJF.

They can promote members, run competitions. receive annual dues and issues licences. All of which are considered legitimate by mainstream Judo. They are bodies that govern and are not restricted to a state or other sub-national geographic region.

They are by any reasonable definition national governing bodies.

A similar situation exists in the UK with regards to the BJA, BJC and AJA. The BJA is the governing body, but the BJC and AJA are governing bodies.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 2:18pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

They can promote members, run competitions. receive annual dues and issues licences. All of which are considered legitimate by mainstream Judo. They are bodies that govern and are not restricted to a state or other sub-national geographic region.

They are by any reasonable definition national governing bodies.

A similar situation exists in the UK with regards to the BJA, BJC and AJA. The BJA is the governing body, but the BJC and AJA are governing bodies.

If you want to call the Group A org's NGB's I can't stop you, but everything JA and JF do is done on behalf of USA Judo, and it is USA Judo that weilds the actual authority of national govorning body. Essentially JA and JF are acting as agents of the NGB, under (and this is my original point) its oversight.

**Sorekara** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 3:27pm

I'm not associated with Mr. Lowry or his Judo club. Just want to make that clear for this statement.

I personally am a little tired of seeing Nick Lowry's rank and or Judo in question.

First of all, on the Windsong website, Mr. Lowry states that he is not part of any Judo organization. He also states that he was tired of all the politics, etc.

Mr. Lowry has made numerous statements in regards to his rank. As Judoka_UK has pointed out, Mr. Lowry has every right to make the claims of his rank regardless of how or why it was bestowed.

As far as Mr. Lowry's Judo Club, Promotions etc,,, Over and over again this man has had to defend his position or ideas or rank as far as NGB Judo is concerned. Why is it that some people can't understand that Nick Lowry doesn't run his dojo according to the rest of the world? Why can't people accept that?

From what I can see and understand, Windsong Dojo and their affiliates are their own NGB. What's interesting about this is, the students of this Dojo are free to register and become members or not become members of any NGB that they wish.

What goes on in Mr. Lowrys Dojo is between Mr. Lowry and his students. Rest assured, none of them are mislead in anyway.

I've seen the videos on Youtube and read all these debates. I'm pretty tired of it already.

From what I can see is that this Dojo has a "free thinking/experimental" attitude. What I can see, regardless of ranks held by who, or NGB's, or any other politics. Nick Lowry has chose to keep separate from this.

They're doing their own thing over there at Windsong, and aren't interfering with anyone.

Why not let this all be, let Nick Lowry,,,,,,, Sensei Lowry, get on with his teaching, learning, experimenting, and growing?

If there is a problem with ranks deserved, or percieved undeserved, take it up with the NGB's in question.

Honestly, I'm amazed at all the BS politic type stuff that normal everyday Judoka are concerned with. Whine and cry moan and bitch about every little damned thing! **** fire! Get over yourselves, and lets get on with Judo!

**markjudo** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 4:54pm

Why? Things arent going to change! I have read comments from those on this list, they dont think RANK is a issue or how someone gets the rank. Maybe because their RANK might be in question too! I have seen this in the past, I will just sit back and watch this Comedy Show. Reading these posts makes my day go by quicker.

When will people WAKE up? We have a SERIOUS issue going on! It is TOO LATE, Judo is DEAD so, why do ANYTHING!

My Rank doesnt mean anything NOW beacuse of these other people think they can CHEAT the system! What a Joke!!!! Have a GREAT DAY