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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I always wonder WTF coaches are thinking when they send students to shiai and have not drilled them on reiho/procedures. It annoys me to no end and slows down the entire tournament.
    Our head coach occasionally conducts randori practice like a mock shiai, playing the part of the referee himself. While the class sits on the sidelines, two players walk out and go through all the rigamarole as if they were at a tournament. After ippon or sore made, two more players on deck go out, and so on. I thought this was standard operating procedure, but I guess some places don't do it.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Any referee who can further shorten these to even more unintelligibly blurted monosyllables wins extra points.
    I've witnessed this myself. Do native Japanese speakers do this as well, or is it an idiomatic quirk of English speaking Judo referees?

  3. #43
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    Our head coach occasionally conducts randori practice like a mock shiai, playing the part of the referee himself. While the class sits on the sidelines, two players walk out and go through all the rigamarole as if they were at a tournament. After ippon or sore made, two more players on deck go out, and so on. I thought this was standard operating procedure, but I guess some places don't do it.
    I've always done that for my students before shiai. It's hard to remember what to do under the stress of shiai if you have not done it before.

    My experience is it must not be done, or at least not as much as it should be done.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    I've witnessed this myself. Do native Japanese speakers do this as well, or is it an idiomatic quirk of English speaking Judo referees?
    I don't know, my experience varies. When I ref, I try to pronounce things intelligibly, at least as best I can for a person who does not speak Japanese.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  5. #45
    NeilG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outis View Post
    I've witnessed this myself. Do native Japanese speakers do this as well, or is it an idiomatic quirk of English speaking Judo referees?
    I'll always remember the time I was at an open kendo practice in Vancouver and the sensei gave the senior student (nisei, yondan or godan IIRC) mild **** for not calling out the line commands properly. His response (in front of the whole class) was "what, not constipated-sounding enough?"

    Japanese people often de-emphasize certain syllables such that English speakers can't detect them but they are still there. So for example, "Hayashi-sensei" comes out "Haya-sensei" to my ear, but if I say "Haya-sensei" they will correct me and say "it's Hayashi".

    "Hajime" is one of those words that seems to get contracted a bit, and because they are saying it very forcefully as a command it can be somewhat worse. That's that "constipated" sound my Vancouver friend was referring to. But if you've heard them speak enough you can understand it.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Japanese people often de-emphasize certain syllables such that English speakers can't detect them but they are still there.
    I've heard that the Japanese pronunciation of jujutsu sounds something like joojoots to native English speakers.

  7. #47

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    It's more like JOO-juh-ts. Japanese speakers tend to deemphasize the last vowel. Desu almost always sounds like Dess, for example.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    It's more like JOO-juh-ts. Japanese speakers tend to deemphasize the last vowel. Desu almost always sounds like Dess, for example.
    In the Japanese classes I took, we were told to pronounce it "dess", that the "u" is silent, LOL.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    In the Japanese classes I took, we were told to pronounce it "dess", that the "u" is silent, LOL.
    It is, kinda. But they'll tell you that they pronounce it very softly and the pitch drops off (i.e., it's voiceless). It's very hard to tell the difference-they can, but if you're not a native speaker it's harder.

    The "u" definitely comes out when they're being formal, very polite or speaking slowly..

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    It is, kinda. But they'll tell you that they pronounce it very softly and the pitch drops off (i.e., it's voiceless). It's very hard to tell the difference-they can, but if you're not a native speaker it's harder.

    The "u" definitely comes out when they're being formal, very polite or speaking slowly..
    LOL, thanks for the info. Japanese class was hard enough without worrying about subtlties like that!
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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