Got my Judo Orange belt (4th kyu)

**Outis** · Posted On: 9/13/2011 11:40pm

Originally Posted by BKR

I always wonder WTF coaches are thinking when they send students to shiai and have not drilled them on reiho/procedures. It annoys me to no end and slows down the entire tournament.

Our head coach occasionally conducts randori practice like a mock shiai, playing the part of the referee himself. While the class sits on the sidelines, two players walk out and go through all the rigamarole as if they were at a tournament. After ippon or sore made, two more players on deck go out, and so on. I thought this was standard operating procedure, but I guess some places don't do it.

**Outis** · Posted On: 9/13/2011 11:47pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Any referee who can further shorten these to even more unintelligibly blurted monosyllables wins extra points.

I've witnessed this myself. Do native Japanese speakers do this as well, or is it an idiomatic quirk of English speaking Judo referees?

**BKR** · Posted On: 9/13/2011 11:49pm

Originally Posted by Outis

Our head coach occasionally conducts randori practice like a mock shiai, playing the part of the referee himself. While the class sits on the sidelines, two players walk out and go through all the rigamarole as if they were at a tournament. After ippon or sore made, two more players on deck go out, and so on. I thought this was standard operating procedure, but I guess some places don't do it.

I've always done that for my students before shiai. It's hard to remember what to do under the stress of shiai if you have not done it before.

My experience is it must not be done, or at least not as much as it should be done.

**BKR** · Posted On: 9/13/2011 11:50pm

Originally Posted by Outis

I've witnessed this myself. Do native Japanese speakers do this as well, or is it an idiomatic quirk of English speaking Judo referees?

I don't know, my experience varies. When I ref, I try to pronounce things intelligibly, at least as best I can for a person who does not speak Japanese.

**NeilG** · Posted On: 9/14/2011 9:09am

Originally Posted by Outis

I've witnessed this myself. Do native Japanese speakers do this as well, or is it an idiomatic quirk of English speaking Judo referees?

I'll always remember the time I was at an open kendo practice in Vancouver and the sensei gave the senior student (nisei, yondan or godan IIRC) mild **** for not calling out the line commands properly. His response (in front of the whole class) was "what, not constipated-sounding enough?"

Japanese people often de-emphasize certain syllables such that English speakers can't detect them but they are still there. So for example, "Hayashi-sensei" comes out "Haya-sensei" to my ear, but if I say "Haya-sensei" they will correct me and say "it's Hayashi".

"Hajime" is one of those words that seems to get contracted a bit, and because they are saying it very forcefully as a command it can be somewhat worse. That's that "constipated" sound my Vancouver friend was referring to. But if you've heard them speak enough you can understand it.

**Outis** · Posted On: 9/19/2011 6:43pm

Originally Posted by NeilG

Japanese people often de-emphasize certain syllables such that English speakers can't detect them but they are still there.

I've heard that the Japanese pronunciation of jujutsu sounds something like joojoots to native English speakers.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 9/19/2011 7:16pm

It's more like JOO-juh-ts. Japanese speakers tend to deemphasize the last vowel. Desu almost always sounds like Dess, for example.

**BKR** · Posted On: 9/19/2011 9:16pm

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

It's more like JOO-juh-ts. Japanese speakers tend to deemphasize the last vowel. Desu almost always sounds like Dess, for example.

In the Japanese classes I took, we were told to pronounce it "dess", that the "u" is silent, LOL.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 9/19/2011 9:49pm

Originally Posted by BKR

In the Japanese classes I took, we were told to pronounce it "dess", that the "u" is silent, LOL.

It is, kinda. But they'll tell you that they pronounce it very softly and the pitch drops off (i.e., it's voiceless). It's very hard to tell the difference-they can, but if you're not a native speaker it's harder.

The "u" definitely comes out when they're being formal, very polite or speaking slowly..

**BKR** · Posted On: 9/19/2011 11:08pm

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

It is, kinda. But they'll tell you that they pronounce it very softly and the pitch drops off (i.e., it's voiceless). It's very hard to tell the difference-they can, but if you're not a native speaker it's harder.

The "u" definitely comes out when they're being formal, very polite or speaking slowly..

LOL, thanks for the info. Japanese class was hard enough without worrying about subtlties like that!