I'm wishing for more alive training.

**Rindoukan** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 4:03pm

I'm practicing shotokan karate and am feeling out this new dojo I'm in. They're a competition focused school so I figured I'd get some top notch training... and I think I am. The workouts are hard and the techniques are simple and powerful (I almost get knocked off my feet when some students kick the heavy bag I'm holding).

My issue is that when it comes to kumite, the rules are point sparring. Score a hit in a designated area and the match is stopped and reset. I'd like to train for more realistic fighting but don't want to give up karate.

I looked up other schools in my area (Long Island NY, suffolk county) and found one place that seemed to promising due to lineage (http://www.takahashikarate.com/) but when I sent them an email asking if they spar they responded that it's rare (usually twice a month), no contact to the head and only light contact sparring despite gloves and students don't compete much.

Does anyone have any advice on training in a more alive manner when the school you attend doesn't do much sparring or only point sparring? Or if anyone knows a karate school in my area that has what I'm looking for, that'd be great.

**erezb** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 4:19pm

Maybe look for a kickboxing, MT or Boxing that is close by and integrate it. You can practice your Karate there and see if it works. Ask to partake only once a week, almost every class has some sparing to it. IMO if you enter a gym/dojo and the veterans don't own a head gear, it's not rough enough.

**Lindz** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 4:26pm

Kyokushin. It's karate, very alive and no face punching means it won't make you any uglier.

**Rindoukan** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 4:49pm

Originally Posted by erezb

Maybe look for a kickboxing, MT or Boxing that is close by and integrate it.

I found two places for boxing (http://www.heavyhittersboxingli.com/index.html) and kickboxing (http://www.ilovekickboxingeastislip.com/) using a bit of google-fu.

The I<3kickboxing site seems really cheesy to me but maybe it's legit. They seem to be a really big chain. The other site mentions MMA training, which might provide a better forum towards what I'm looking for. I'll try to visit them through the week.

@Lindz I wasn't able to find a Kyokushin place~ but that'd be a great find.

**maofas** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 9:55pm

I see you're on Long Island. How difficult for you will it be to get to Mahanttan (LIRR?) or Jamaica Queens?

If you want to do kickboxing or one of the popular styles, that's great, nothing wrong with that. In fact, you should try a class out and compare. If you want to continue Shotokan, however, you are in one of the better areas of the country to do it in. Call these people/schools and clearly state exactly what you're hoping to find in a karate class, and see what they say:

Manhattan - Igor Dyachenko (D-dojo) 212 537 6441
Jamaica - Herb Wiles (Harakenkojuku) 718 454 5425
Jamaica - George Ashkar (Karate-do Kyodai) 718 740 3493

Igor is heavily into sport karate, but he's a beast and can fight continuously with hard contact no problem. He also crosstrains in combat sports, but I don't know if any of it leaks into his regular Shotokan classes or not though (thus call and ask), as he did not have his own school until after I moved out of NY.

Herb Wiles and George Ashkar are old-school. You will do kata, you will punch with your fist on your ribs, hit makiwara and other things people here tend to despise. Somewhere in the middle of all that you will learn how to fight though. I'm not sure exactly how he works now, but Wiles was nearly 100% continuous-sparring back and his gradings were continuous sparring gauntlets like Kyokushin.
Aschkar OTOH, has Judo on-site and actually requires you to train a certain amount of Judo to progress in Shotokan.

**Lindz** · Posted On: 7/13/2011 1:05pm

I couldnt find any kyok in your area with a quick google
you might have more luck with some off shoots
off the top of my head there's enshin, seidokan, shinkyokushin, daido juku and others

**Soldiermedic** · Posted On: 7/13/2011 1:44pm

You could always go to the owners of the school and mention that you are looking for harder sparring. If there is enough interest amongst the students, then they may accomodate you. Remember that you are paying them money for a service, and if it turns out they are unwilling, then you can make the choice whether to add training elsewhere to supplement your shotokan, or maybe to think about going elsewhere entirely

**Rindoukan** · Posted On: 7/14/2011 12:07pm

Originally Posted by Lindz

I couldnt find any kyok in your area with a quick google
you might have more luck with some off shoots
off the top of my head there's enshin, seidokan, shinkyokushin, daido juku and others

Looking up those other schools makes me really wish there was a Daido Juku school in my area. I was thinking of training to black belt in shotokan, then doing the same with judo and daido is already that combination :)
Unfortunately I couldn't find anything through the web for any other schools. I bet they're out there, but without proper web presence it'll be hard to find.

Originally Posted by soldiermedic25

You could always go to the owners of the school and mention that you are looking for harder sparring. If there is enough interest amongst the students, then they may accomodate you.

I may just have to do that. And if things don't work out... skip straight to judo. Thanks.

**Kouch** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 3:04pm

if its anything like this...then i think its pretty hardcore. id love to get in a mix like that.

**Lindz** · Posted On: 7/15/2011 4:54pm

Originally Posted by Rindoukan

Looking up those other schools makes me really wish there was a Daido Juku school in my area. I was thinking of training to black belt in shotokan, then doing the same with judo and daido is already that combination :)
Unfortunately I couldn't find anything through the web for any other schools. I bet they're out there, but without proper web presence it'll be hard to find.

Daido Juku is awesome but rare except for a few places in the world