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  1. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 3:23pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Little or no previous rank is only one small part of the issue, there are people who have a record of every single rank, but that's because they sent off their cheques regularly...
    I see. Gotcha.

    Has this been exposed anywhere before (any people in particular?), or are we talking about behind the scenes stuff?

    Would it be useful to get a technical analysis of Mr. Lowry's Judo too? Get an idea of what level he should really be at in terms of rank? I can kinda imagine how this might go if this ever goes further - all 'Tripp got all jealous and pissy when he found out that this cat outranks him and kicked up a big fuss'...
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 3:45pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Has this been exposed anywhere before (any people in particular?), or are we talking about behind the scenes stuff?
    Yeh it all blew up a while back and Phil Porter was pushed/jumped from the USJA ship. However, a lot of people who benefited from the previous rank situation are still in place, still in power and still in posession of high dan grade ranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Would it be useful to get a technical analysis of Mr. Lowry's Judo too? Get an idea of what level he should really be at in terms of rank? I can kinda imagine how this might go if this ever goes further - all 'Tripp got all jealous and pissy when he found out that this cat outranks him and kicked up a big fuss'...
    Well as a lowly 1st dan I don't think I'm really in a position to say what an 8th dan should have in their Judo. However, I am in a position to spot things in someone's Judo that shouldn't be there if they're an 8th dan.

    I don't have the energy, time or inclination to do an analysis of one of Lowry's videos.

    However here's some food for thought. Here's some people whose 8th dan is undisputed.





    I've picked these, because there are relatively extended throwing scenes and also they move relatively slowly so you aren't wowed by speed.

    It should be clear from these the much greater economy of movement and fluidity to the above videos than the Lowry ones.

    That's the simplest way for someone to see 'the difference'.
  3. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 5:33pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just want to point out that we are taking aout a promotion made in 2006, wellafter Porter was forced out of USJA. To me THAT is the scary part: that it's still happening under the modern leadership of JA.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  4. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 5:48pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    To me THAT is the scary part: that it's *possibly/potentially/allegedly* still happening under the modern leadership of JA.
    I changed one word in your post to ensure, in MABS, that a provable decision hasn't yet been reached.
  5. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 5:53pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    I just want to point out that we are taking aout a promotion made in 2006, wellafter Porter was forced out of USJA. To me THAT is the scary part: that it's still happening under the modern leadership of JA.
    Just wondering - based on your (or MTripp's, or whoever's) knowledge of how the USJA is set up, how likely is it that the higher-ups in the org would be aware of something like this happening? I personally have no knowledge of their oversight procedures or how tightly-knit-everyone-knows-everyone the org is. Someone getting promoted to 8th dan *sounds* like a big deal to me - but is it?

    Worth pinging Neil Ohlenkamp about this? I mention his name solely because he already has an account on here?
  6. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 6:02pm

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    As I understand it, there is the USJA promotion board which is directly responsible for approving promotions (at least high rank promotions), then there is the USJA board of directors which has oversight for the whole organization. An 8th dan promotion would normally go before the promotion board.

    I thought the number of USJA 8th dans would be a pretty small group. Unfortunately it is not.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 6:06pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The promotion in question was made in 2006. I am not certain how many times the USJA PB met in that year, but minutes are only available for a meeting in July
    Quote Originally Posted by USJA PB

    Promotion Committee Minutes

    United States Judo Association

    July 14, 2006
    Boca Raton , Fl





    Chairperson Virgil Bowles called the meeting to order at 11:30 AM. Members present were; Vice Chairman Bob Spraley, Secretary Gary Monto, Pete Contardo, Ernie Smith, William Andreas and Jim Webb. Walt Dean, Jaques Legrand and Rusty Kanokogi requested to be excused George Harris was absent.
    Yodan:



    Jonathan Baker
    PASSED

    David Bleeker
    PASSED

    Gordan P. Burgett
    PASSED

    Lisa Guerrero
    PASSED

    O. Sam Mitani
    PASSED

    Dan Sisson
    PASSED

    Regilio E. Van Eer
    PASSED

    David Yapchanyk
    PASSED
    Godan:



    Marlene Baker
    PASSED

    Darren Buneo
    PASSED

    Frank Colonnese
    PASSED

    Harry Doherty
    PASSED

    Constance H Halporn
    PASSED

    Hector Negron
    PASSED PENDING FURTHER BACK GROUND CHECK

    John Paccione
    PASSED
    Rokudan:



    Robert W. Baker
    PASSED

    Richard Hahn
    PASSED

    Meeting was adjourned at 12:15
    Submitted by Gary L. Monto Secretary
    From http://www.usja-judo.org/users/usja....6PBminutes.htm

    Now it is possible tha there are other meetings for which minutes have not been made available, but Lowry's promotion is not mentioned here.

    As to the general question of oversight, Matt Morton was able to obtain USJA rank by submitting alterd Kodokan documents belonging to a USJA board member, and no one noticed until we brought it to their attention. I don't know if it's safe to assuming they are going over things with a fine tooth comb every time.

    @Snake You are absolutely correct; I meant it would be scary if true.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 7/13/2011 6:33pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 6:41pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This still needs to be checked out but a little bird told me that Karl Geis' (Lowry's sensei atthe time of the promotion) Fugakukai International Association had many of its senior people given USJA Judo rank in the last 10 years, apprently without going through the promotion board. Apparenly some kind of political thing.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  9. Outis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 9:46pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    This still needs to be checked out but a little bird told me that Karl Geis' (Lowry's sensei atthe time of the promotion) Fugakukai International Association had many of its senior people given USJA Judo rank in the last 10 years, apprently without going through the promotion board. Apparenly some kind of political thing.
    I've heard of heads of schools who were aged and infirm awarding advanced rank to their favorite students as a kind of "annointing" to indicate who their successors were meant to be.

    Might this be the cross that was thrust upon the reluctant Lowry's shoulder?
  10. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 9:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suggest you ask him
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
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