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  1. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2011 11:18am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeh that's fixed it. Cheers.
  2. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2011 11:41am

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Yeh that's fixed it. Cheers.
    MABS Investigator rule #1: Your finger should be reaching for the "prt scrn" button the instant your eyebrows start to raise. Interesting stuff has a way of disappearing from the interwebs.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2011 7:17pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Well, what got me on this is that his own comments are out of sync with the facts. If the shodan was "off" and he admits it, then WFT is up with the 8th dan?

    As for USJA, lets be clear. In this case, and likely many more (I suspect we are going to learn why Pedro and Anna Marie left) they are violating their own guidelines for rank. There is no way this guy gets an 8th dan BY USJA RULES! We are still gathering evidence but I am asking for one bit of info that no one cam seem to find, I want to see the test paper, ANY test paper. Not the one that tells you how much money to send in, but the one that is used to test and grade your skills.

    My 6th dan test papers are on record, and I took the whole damn test....

    ...how come its so hard to find other peoples tests?

    I will go to the Geis thread and answer you there.
    Mark, I know of another guy who got promoted to 7, 8th and I believe 9th dan by USJA without taking any tests.

    Can't the JA BOD do that if they want regarding rank? Did ANY of the USJA ninth dans have to take a test?

    Ben
    Last edited by BKR; 7/12/2011 7:39pm at .
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. Matt Phillips is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2011 10:17pm

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    I think the real issue is for Rokudan; IIRC that is the last grade for which there is an actual test. If someone went from 6th to 9th there would not be an issue, but jumping from 1st to 8th without taking the (very) challenging test for 6th is the problem.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  5. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2011 10:50pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the clarification Mark. I was unaware of the issues until reading through the judo forum and your posts here.

    I always thought his rank was through the Fugakukai. I'm sure he'd just as soon have the USJA rank stricken from the record.
  6. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2011 11:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Thanks for the clarification Mark. I was unaware of the issues until reading through the judo forum and your posts here.

    I always thought his rank was through the Fugakukai. I'm sure he'd just as soon have the USJA rank stricken from the record.
    I don't know... he was fine invoking it in a discussion about his joining the teaching staff of a Judo camp.

    He could have said "I don't have any rank I care to mention" but he chose to say "USJA Hachidan"
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 5:11am

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    So where exactly is this investigation going to go?

    As this rank has been issued by one of the official organisations so the normal bullshido investigation stuff of turning up evidence of rank fraud or self-awarding of rank from circle jerk orgs doesn't really apply.

    Does the USJA have some sort of procedure for querying rank awards and any kind of mechanism for demoting people or rescinding rank?

    If they don't then I don't see where this is going to go, because no matter what you think of Lowry or his Judo anything to do with his rank has to go through the official USJA channels and procedures.
  8. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 5:32am

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    If they don't then I don't see where this is going to go, because no matter what you think of Lowry or his Judo anything to do with his rank has to go through the official USJA channels and procedures.
    It's worth, from a consumer protection standpoint, just having the info up here so that people Googling him get an idea of the actual position. Even if it roundly fails to provoke any 'official' action.
  9. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 5:40am

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    It's worth, from a consumer protection standpoint, just having the info up here so that people Googling him get an idea of the actual position. Even if it roundly fails to provoke any 'official' action.
    What is someone going to find from this thread though?

    To an outside it just looks like sour grapes, lots of people bitching about a guy who has a high grade from a legit org, the guy in question replies with an e-mail where he has a nice little story about how he didn't really want it, but it was thrust upon him.

    Upshot, this thread looks petty and vindictive. Any beginner looking to start at Lowry's club will ignore this thread 'cos 8th dan' and any experienced grade is going to see the videos, see the grade and naturally look askance.
  10. battheo is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2011 6:12am


     Style: Shaolin, Goshin Jujitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    What is someone going to find from this thread though?

    To an outside it just looks like sour grapes, lots of people bitching about a guy who has a high grade from a legit org, the guy in question replies with an e-mail where he has a nice little story about how he didn't really want it, but it was thrust upon him.

    Upshot, this thread looks petty and vindictive. Any beginner looking to start at Lowry's club will ignore this thread 'cos 8th dan' and any experienced grade is going to see the videos, see the grade and naturally look askance.
    The consumer stuff is relevant, sure. And he sounds like a nice guy. But, to answer your question about where this investigation is going, Mark quite clearly states on page 2 of this thread that Lowry's rank is second in importance to the much larger, and more worrying, question concerning USJA's legitimacy.

    We have here one example of a USJA Hachidan who's promotion violates the rank requirements of the governing body and organisation in question. And the consensus between the Judo guys that have commented thus far (yourself included) is that skill wise, Lowry does NOT deserve that grade.

    If we have an example of one Hachidan in this situation, it is not a far fetched question to ask whether other members of that organisation are also holding rank that they are not qualified to hold.

    My knowledge of American Judo is pretty weak, apart from what I've gained from people like Mark and Ben on these boards, but if I recall correctly, USJA is one of three organisations in USA who are able to give official Judo rank.

    If USJA is giving out dodgy ranks, that is a big deal. Potentially, it's a MASSIVE deal for American Judo, and it should be brought to the attention of the Judo community, many of whom have worked hard for their grades over a long period of time.

    Out of interest, to those people asking why this investigation is happening etc. is this really that hard to understand? One of the three Judo orgs in America is potentially giving out ranks it shouldn't be. This is not a dojo grade. Surely that's a big deal?
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