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  1. Mtripp is offline
    Mtripp's Avatar

    Choked out by Gene Lebell

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Grand Blanc, MI
    Posts
    3,276

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 8:11am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know, I thought the recent not guilty verdict was the best evidence how dense and incapable of logic people have become. Then there is all of this. Lowry is now waving about his rank paper as if that ends this discussion. I KNOW he has the paper and I KNOW he is in the database... so was Matt Morton.

    The issue is, are those papers valid? Were they issued with due diligence to USJA's own rules for those ranks. The answer, is no.

    Lets take Mr. Lowry at his word and say the rank was a "gift." Really? One "gifts" a rank like a set of steak knives? Pfui! However, lets accept his version of events and say the rank was simply "handed" to him. Then, by his own words, the rank is not valid.

    If he never knew of it, then he never tested for it. No test, means no rank. Neither did he fill out the correct paperwork to receive the rank, and more to the point neither did he sign that paper to both swear and affirm that the promotion points on that paper were truthful and accurate.

    Promotional points can be found here

    http://mysite.verizon.net/resptwx6/points.htm

    So, if he is telling the truth, then the papers are invalid, because he never signed the proper documents to procure them. If someone else did, then they are false and the rank is still invalid.

    USJA forms are found here:

    http://www.usja-judo.org/forms.htm

    However, and its interesting to note, that you can NOT download ANY Forms as of this morning, but you could last evening. How odd….

    Moreover, EVERY black belt in USJA must have a background check. This of course requires permission, so either this information was forged, or the story cannot be true because he would have known of the background check taking place. In either event, the paper is invalid.

    http://www.usja-judo.org/forms/Docs2...onsentForm.pdf

    If, as Nick claims, he was just handed this paper, it would mean that USJA has an 8th degree black belt out there who was NEVER background checked. THAT is an even bigger problem than the invalid rank.

    Keep in mind, the USJA database shows Mr. Lowry as a Shodan in 1992 and then NOTHING again until 2006 where he gets 8th Dan. There would HAVE to be a background check for the 2006 promotion, a promotion Mr. Lowry claims he knew nothing about. This is still more flummery. YES, I know he has the paper; it’s an "official" paper. Matt Morton had an official paper too. BOTH were and are invalid due to how they were obtained.

    I find it interesting that Lowry refuses to speak to any of these issues. He continues to take the "Juko-lie" path and speak in fortune cookie platitudes about honor and loyalty while avoiding ANY talk about where the promotion points came from, other than a checkbook.

    Mr. Lowry, did you TEST for this rank, yes or no?

    Mr. Lowry where is the evidence of your DEEDS and ACTIONS in JUDO that qualify you for this rank?

    A am waiting to hear you speak to that…
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  2. Warchief is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wichita Falls, TX
    Posts
    40

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 8:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo & Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, I am affiliated with the USJA in an official capacity. I am a current member of the BOD.
  3. Larus marinus is offline
    Larus marinus's Avatar

    Banzai Buddy

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    NW England
    Posts
    3,066

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 8:30am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Warchief View Post
    Yes, I am affiliated with the USJA in an official capacity. I am a current member of the BOD.
    So, as a current member of the USJA BOD...

    I suppose that the simple, obvious question to ask you here would be "what do you think about the situation documented in this thread?".
  4. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,998

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 9:23am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    If Nick had said he was an honorory Hachidan with USJA I wouldn't have said a word; If someone get Honorary JD from Yale and then drops "Honorary" when they mention it, you can bet they are doing something wrong.
    Exactly right they are not the same issue at all. Oh and let me add for clarification of the point, when you receive an Honorary Degree, from an accredited institution, it doesn't allow you to gain the same recognition as someone who went through the actual program.
  5. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,605

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 9:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    You know, I thought the recent not guilty verdict was the best evidence how dense and incapable of logic people have become. Then there is all of this. Lowry is now waving about his rank paper as if that ends this discussion. I KNOW he has the paper and I KNOW he is in the database... so was Matt Morton.

    The issue is, are those papers valid? Were they issued with due diligence to USJA's own rules for those ranks. The answer, is no.

    Lets take Mr. Lowry at his word and say the rank was a "gift." Really? One "gifts" a rank like a set of steak knives? Pfui! However, lets accept his version of events and say the rank was simply "handed" to him. Then, by his own words, the rank is not valid.

    If he never knew of it, then he never tested for it. No test, means no rank. Neither did he fill out the correct paperwork to receive the rank, and more to the point neither did he sign that paper to both swear and affirm that the promotion points on that paper were truthful and accurate.

    Promotional points can be found here

    http://mysite.verizon.net/resptwx6/points.htm

    So, if he is telling the truth, then the papers are invalid, because he never signed the proper documents to procure them. If someone else did, then they are false and the rank is still invalid.

    USJA forms are found here:

    http://www.usja-judo.org/forms.htm

    However, and its interesting to note, that you can NOT download ANY Forms as of this morning, but you could last evening. How odd….

    Moreover, EVERY black belt in USJA must have a background check. This of course requires permission, so either this information was forged, or the story cannot be true because he would have known of the background check taking place. In either event, the paper is invalid.

    http://www.usja-judo.org/forms/Docs2...onsentForm.pdf

    If, as Nick claims, he was just handed this paper, it would mean that USJA has an 8th degree black belt out there who was NEVER background checked. THAT is an even bigger problem than the invalid rank.

    Keep in mind, the USJA database shows Mr. Lowry as a Shodan in 1992 and then NOTHING again until 2006 where he gets 8th Dan. There would HAVE to be a background check for the 2006 promotion, a promotion Mr. Lowry claims he knew nothing about. This is still more flummery. YES, I know he has the paper; it’s an "official" paper. Matt Morton had an official paper too. BOTH were and are invalid due to how they were obtained.

    I find it interesting that Lowry refuses to speak to any of these issues. He continues to take the "Juko-lie" path and speak in fortune cookie platitudes about honor and loyalty while avoiding ANY talk about where the promotion points came from, other than a checkbook.

    Mr. Lowry, did you TEST for this rank, yes or no?

    Mr. Lowry where is the evidence of your DEEDS and ACTIONS in JUDO that qualify you for this rank?

    A am waiting to hear you speak to that…
    Mark,

    You are a member in good standing of USJA. You are well known, respected, and hold legitimate rank.

    If you are so concerned with this matter, take it up with USJA. It shouldn't be a difficult matter for you to follow USJA procedures to get an ethics or whatever type of investigation started.

    That would be the right thing to do. From what has been posted here, some sort of shenanigans possibly went on regarding Lowry's and possibly other's promotions, possibly specifically associated with Karl Geis during that time period.

    If you have not personally started or requested such an investigation, I'm asking you now, why not?

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    33,998

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 10:49am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, it needs to be noted that I asked Matt to come help. The honest truth is that I should have dumped this thread in YMAS because of the OP. It is okay now because other got it up to snuff before all of the complaints were posted.
  7. nick lowry is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    45

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 11:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: aikido judo jodo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    You know, I thought the recent not guilty verdict was the best evidence how dense and incapable of logic people have become. Then there is all of this. Lowry is now waving about his rank paper as if that ends this discussion. I KNOW he has the paper and I KNOW he is in the database... so was Matt Morton.

    The issue is, are those papers valid? Were they issued with due diligence to USJA's own rules for those ranks. The answer, is no.

    Lets take Mr. Lowry at his word and say the rank was a "gift." Really? One "gifts" a rank like a set of steak knives? Pfui! However, lets accept his version of events and say the rank was simply "handed" to him. Then, by his own words, the rank is not valid.

    If he never knew of it, then he never tested for it. No test, means no rank. Neither did he fill out the correct paperwork to receive the rank, and more to the point neither did he sign that paper to both swear and affirm that the promotion points on that paper were truthful and accurate.

    Promotional points can be found here

    http://mysite.verizon.net/resptwx6/points.htm

    So, if he is telling the truth, then the papers are invalid, because he never signed the proper documents to procure them. If someone else did, then they are false and the rank is still invalid.

    USJA forms are found here:

    http://www.usja-judo.org/forms.htm

    However, and its interesting to note, that you can NOT download ANY Forms as of this morning, but you could last evening. How odd….

    Moreover, EVERY black belt in USJA must have a background check. This of course requires permission, so either this information was forged, or the story cannot be true because he would have known of the background check taking place. In either event, the paper is invalid.

    http://www.usja-judo.org/forms/Docs2...onsentForm.pdf

    If, as Nick claims, he was just handed this paper, it would mean that USJA has an 8th degree black belt out there who was NEVER background checked. THAT is an even bigger problem than the invalid rank.

    Keep in mind, the USJA database shows Mr. Lowry as a Shodan in 1992 and then NOTHING again until 2006 where he gets 8th Dan. There would HAVE to be a background check for the 2006 promotion, a promotion Mr. Lowry claims he knew nothing about. This is still more flummery. YES, I know he has the paper; it’s an "official" paper. Matt Morton had an official paper too. BOTH were and are invalid due to how they were obtained.

    I find it interesting that Lowry refuses to speak to any of these issues. He continues to take the "Juko-lie" path and speak in fortune cookie platitudes about honor and loyalty while avoiding ANY talk about where the promotion points came from, other than a checkbook.

    Mr. Lowry, did you TEST for this rank, yes or no?

    Mr. Lowry where is the evidence of your DEEDS and ACTIONS in JUDO that qualify you for this rank?

    A am waiting to hear you speak to that…

    1. No
    2. Ask those who promoted me. It was their action not mine.
  8. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bahstun
    Posts
    9,701

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 12:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In an attempt to get some clarification on this issue, I sent the following email:

    Matt Phillips to jimrwebb

    Dear Mr Webb,

    As group A director, I thought you would be interested in the following discussion found at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107651&page=1 in which it appears the USJA has put through multiple promotions without processing background checks, or collecting exam papers. In this discussion, a member of the USJA BOD has asserted " USJA has the inherent right to promote its members without any discussion or interference from USA Judo", which is contrary to my understanding of the relationship of a group A org to the NGB. While we have been looking at the case of a single indvidual, the primary concern is that there seem to have been multiple cases of this sort of promotion. We would welcome your input in this discussion.

    Sincerely,

    Matt Phillips
    Investigator, Bulshido.net
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  9. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bahstun
    Posts
    9,701

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 12:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nick lowry View Post
    1. No
    2. Ask those who promoted me. It was their action not mine.
    Nick, how is it that you don't have any registered kyu ranks in your USJA promotion history?
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  10. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,605

    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 12:30pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    Since Geis' dojo was a JA club (TX0002) I'm assuming Nick had to register wth USJA just to get on the mat (the same way I had to with JF), so 1989 may mark the beginning of his association with Geis' school. I appreciate your comments about other people putting you in for enhanced membership, but the Silver Life is the only membership he has ever had with them; it is the original membership he would have had to file to get insurace, etc. and get on the mat. You have to sign that form yourself don't you?

    As I said before, this may very well end up in front of the USJA. In the mean time it's business as usual to have a dscussion about the case in this forum.
    That's a big assumption on your part regarding having to be a member of JA to work out at Geis'es dojo in Houston. I walked in and was not asked for any sort of proof of membership in anything. The dojo is a purpose built facility. Karl had living quarters in the building. I'm willing to bet he had outside insurance, other than USJA, but that would be an assumption on my part.

    I never signed any USJA forms, as I never (purposely) joined the USJA.


    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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