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  1. Larus marinus is offline
    Larus marinus's Avatar

    Banzai Buddy

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 7:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nick lowry View Post
    hmm ...i was trying to upload a pic of it for ya but its not working
    Thank you very much.

    http://imageshack.us/ is what I usually use when I upload images for here...
  2. nick lowry is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 8:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: aikido judo jodo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Thank you very much.

    http://imageshack.us/ is what I usually use when I upload images for here...
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/photo20a.jpg/
  3. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 8:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Much appreciated. I've just flipped it and uploaded it here...



    I should probably leave it to the Judo folks to comment - but your openness here has been very refreshing and I'm personally grateful to you for that.

    Edit to add:

    So if we pull up the USJA Board of Directors meeting minutes from July 2006...

    http://www.usja-judo.org/users/usja....ingMinutes.pdf

    We have...

    James R. Webb
    Board Member and President

    Virgil J. Bowles
    Board Member

    Gary Goltz
    Chief Operating Officer

    (note - not to imply any wrongdoing from these people at all here... just noting their positions at the approximate time when Mr. Lowry's cert was issued)
    Last edited by Larus marinus; 7/14/2011 8:21pm at .
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 8:23pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well then, there is nothing to be said. People need to check that over, but if it is official (no offense) then the bitching needs to be directed at the governing body not Mr. Lowry.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 7/14/2011 9:44pm at .
  5. nick lowry is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 8:27pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: aikido judo jodo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Much appreciated. I've just flipped it and uploaded it here...



    I should probably leave it to the Judo folks to comment - but your openness here has been very refreshing and I'm personally grateful to you for that.
    You are welcome... it seems that my several hours of bullsido fame are winding down now and for the most part you fellas have been rigorous and fair -- some obviously will not be satisfied until they reform the American Judo ranking establishment and make it all "just so" -- i wish them luck -- may their lives go well -- if you have further questions just let me know-- in the mean time i'm gonna get back to making video for youtube and teaching how to make folks go involuntarily upsidedown --
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 8:35pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for you time.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 9:37pm

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hold on a second. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I would like to remind everyone that other folks have presented similar, authentic Judo rank certs from USJA that turned out to be held improperly. Matt Morton's USJA rank was registered in the appropriate database, and his USJA documents were not forged in any way. Still the rank was not earned as the discussion on the forum brought to light.

    I'm sorry, but I can not see, based on the description of events given by Mr Lowry, how this can be valid USJA rank. For starters Mr Geis can not have put Lowry in for the Hachidan promotion by himself; Nick would have had to sign the papers himself, swearing "I certify that the answers and scores recorded on the rank exam were properly earned and that the indicated promotion points and time in grade are correct and true." For the rank to be valid, Nick would have had to put pen to paper and certify that the he answered truthfully all the questions on the exam he says he never took; for the rank to be vailid, he would have had so sign a statement certifying that his time in grade requirement of 47 years from the award of Shodan was "correct and true" when ony 11 years had elapsed, and critically, for this rank to be vaid Nick would have had to give his consent in writing to submit to (and pay for) USJA's manditory background screening. If this was not done, not only is there no way his Hachidan can be valid, but USJA would be allowing an unscreened individual permission to coach minors.

    Now one thing is clear on this thread so far: that Nick Lowry is a personable and reasonable guy, and not a MABS spaz of the sort we often see here, but Mr Lowry's personality in no way clears up any of the problems mentioned above. His rank cannot be valid, and his account of how he received it can not be correct. It is easy enough to imagine Sensei Geis putting Nick's name in the hat unilaterally... unless one is familiar with the actual forms that have to be filed. If his rank is invalid for the reasons I have given here, then folks are correct in pointing out that it is a matter for USJA to look at; this was the case with Morton's on the books rank as well. We did not tell Matt "Thank you for your time." and close the book simply because wealso had USJA to talk to. Karl Geis did not forge Nick Lowry's signature on a background check authorization form, and submit false fingerprints in Lowry's name. I'm sorry, but that never happened. Nick either signed section 5 of his promotion papers, certifying that his exam was in order, or he did not. If he signed them then he lied about taking the exam, and there is no rank; if he did not, then there never was any rank at all, and the record of it in the database, and the certificate he presented here are an illusion. That's it, there are no other possibilities: either he signed off on taking an exam he never took, and is holding his rank illegitimately, or he never was a USJA Hachidan at all.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 7/14/2011 9:46pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


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  8. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 10:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey Matt,

    Why not have M Tripp pose these thoughts/questions himself vs you being his mouth piece?

    USJA did not go by the rules. Is there not the possibility that Nick never had to sign anything or was that a rule in force but to hell with the others?
  9. nick lowry is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 10:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: aikido judo jodo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    Hold on a second. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I would like to remind everyone that other folks have presented similar, authentic Judo rank certs from USJA that turned out to be held improperly. Matt Morton's USJA rank was registered in the appropriate database, and his USJA documents were not forged in any way. Still the rank was not earned as the discussion on the forum brought to light.

    I'm sorry, but I can not see, based on the description of events given by Mr Lowry, how this can be valid USJA rank. For starters Mr Geis can not have put Lowry in for the Hachidan promotion by himself; Nick would have had to sign the papers himself, swearing "I certify that the answers and scores recorded on the rank exam were properly earned and that the indicated promotion points and time in grade are correct and true." For the rank to be valid, Nick would have had to put pen to paper and certify that the he answered truthfully all the questions on the exam he says he never took; for the rank to be vailid, he would have had so sign a statement certifying that his time in grade requirement of 47 years from the award of Shodan was "correct and true" when ony 11 years had elapsed, and critically, for this rank to be vaid Nick would have had to give his consent in writing to submit to (and pay for) USJA's manditory background screening. If this was not done, not only is there no way his Hachidan can be valid, but USJA would be allowing an unscreened individual permission to coach minors.

    Now one thing is clear on this thread so far: that Nick Lowry is a personable and reasonable guy, and not a MABS spaz of the sort we often see here, but Mr Lowry's personality in no way clears up any of the problems mentioned above. His rank cannot be valid, and his account of how he received it can not be correct. It is easy enough to imagine Sensei Geis putting Nick's name in the hat unilaterally... unless one is familiar with the actual forms that have to be filed. If his rank is invalid for the reasons I have given here, then folks are correct in pointing out that it is a matter for USJA to look at; this was the case with Morton's on the books rank as well. We did not tell Matt "Thank you for your time." and close the book simply because wealso had USJA to talk to. Karl Geis did not forge Nick Lowry's signature on a background check authorization form, and submit false fingerprints in Lowry's name. I'm sorry, but that never happened. Nick either signed section 5 of his promotion papers, certifying that his exam was in order, or he did not. If he signed them then he lied about taking the exam, and there is no rank; if he did not, then there never was any rank at all, and the record of it in the database, and the certificate he presented here are an illusion. That's it, there are no other possibilities: either he signed off on taking an exam he never took, and is holding his rank illegitimately, or he never was a USJA Hachidan at all.

    nope --i never signed any paperwork about section 5 or anything else-- didnt even know there was a background check or fingerprints -- cant speak to how it was processed or not on the usja end -- never spoke with them -- and i have no direct knowledge of who my teacher was working with there-- all i can say is
    it went down as i have reported it -- on my end, i was informed of the promotion over the phone and the certificate pictured above came in the mail
  10. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2011 10:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    (edit to note that I was composing this while the previous two posts were coming in)

    I was just about to go to bed when I saw this thread had replies...

    Anyhoo - Matt, you're obviously more clued-up than I on the practices of the USJA. In your post, you presented an either/or scenario - "either he signed off on taking an exam he never took, and is holding his rank illegitimately, or he never was a USJA Hachidan at all".

    Is there not a third possibility here - that someone spoke to someone and got all the rules waived for Mr. Lowry (and perhaps others)? Which is perhaps the worst scenario of all.

    You mention the 47 years time in grade - I don't think that Mr. Lowry is even 47 years old now, is he (or even if he's slightly older - it would probably work out that he'd have to have been awarded his shodan as a small child)? If he'd signed something affirming that, *surely* sanity would prevail and someone would have pointed out the impossibility?
    Last edited by Larus marinus; 7/14/2011 10:22pm at .
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