Judo: Higher ranks leary of lower ranks?

**NeilG** · Posted On: 7/10/2011 10:13am

Sorry to hear about your experience. In my judo club, we treat all newbies with a welcoming attitude. But it's a recreational club, nobody is going hard in randori (if they do, sensei steps in to fix it) and we don't have to deal with that many beginners.

In my kendo club it's a different kettle of fish - I'm usually dealing with 2 dozen adult beginners and a dozen new kids every fall. We teach them separately and most of the club can't be bothered to learn their names until they've been around for a year or so because frankly, they are 95% likely to be gone in a year anyways. They can improve things for themselves if they step up socially - come with us to the bar after class, show up at the term-end party, that sort of thing.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 7/10/2011 10:39am

I've found judo to be most welcoming to newcomers. Matter of fact, not just in judo, but most places no matter what the art.

Tools don't last long at our dojo.

That being said, most of my injuries in both the striking arts and judo have come from beginners. More experienced people know how to hold back in order for those with lower abilities to progress in their learning.

Just set myself back at least a couple of months. Was going to go light as I've already been absent from class more than I should. My fault as I knew better.

Often times, it's those with more experience that also have more wear and tear on their bodies. More injuries to protect. Added is the fact that us older farts take longer to heal.

.....disclaimer.....

My judo sucks.

**crappler** · Posted On: 7/10/2011 10:45pm

I have never been injured by a beginner because I act like a little bitch, tell them I am old, crippled, please go easy on me, and when they attack I let them have it. Then I work with the position I am in.

Then they mirror my attitude, disengage their strength and ego and we both are fine. You can crank it up later.

Beginners do this out of fear. They don't want to be embarrassed, and they don't want to get hurt. They really don't know what to expect.

I know that all the world-champs out there think you should show someone your best if you spar them the first time, but I disagree.

My needs are different. I need to continue training for exercise. Losing is not an issue.

**kikoolol** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 6:30pm

I don't like working with newbies. We thankfully have the token black belt old guy that likes to take some of the newbies (including me, when I joined) and train with them. However sometimes as the highest rank present aside from the main instructor that responsibility falls onto me and I hate it when that happens.

I don't know how to say this without looking like a huge douche, but the last thing I want as a paying student is to teach newbies material I'm only beginning to understand myself. I would much rather get on with my own training.

When I hit a certain level of expertise, yeah, sure, throw the noobs my way. Currently I can't do 30 seconds of osoto-gari uchikomi without being told to act as a throwing dummy for 45 minutes for someone I will, in all likelihood, never see again.

**NeilG** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 7:34pm

Originally Posted by kikoolol

Currently I can't do 30 seconds of osoto-gari uchikomi without being told to act as a throwing dummy for 45 minutes for someone I will, in all likelihood, never see again.

Welcome to my life. Every year I teach 30+ new people kendo. Every year, I see maybe 1 or 2 return from the previous year.

**Sorekara** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 10:16pm

I'm amazed at all the people that come in. Each and every single one of them are gung-ho and every eager to learn. Then one day, poof!

Not wanting to waste your time is completely understandable. The ones that have stayed so far are the ones that seem unsure of Judo. They're usually very quiet.

Myself on the otherhand, I must be one of the few who made an "educated" decision. Going in I knew it was going to be hard work. I knew there was 100% chance of injury. I also had no delusions of being a bad a$$. My first day I was fully prepared to do what ever it took to learn. My only fear was injury, or if my older body could handle it.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 7/11/2011 10:26pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Anyway point being that often late adult beginners are spectacularly uselss and wear out the patience of more experienced Judoka, because they are so useless that people have to protect themselves by not practicing with them and are generally just a major ball ache for an established club.

Then be prepared for them to vote for some other art with their feet. I hated getting that "useless old man" vibe at my Judo club.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 12:38am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Anyway point being that often late adult beginners are spectacularly uselss and wear out the patience of more experienced Judoka, because they are so useless that people have to protect themselves by not practicing with them and are generally just a major ball ache for an established club.

judoka_uk,

As someone who's been practicing the arts long before you were born, yet not many years ago stepped into judo again, your judo posts have good information and I've learned a great deal from them.

Yes, many newbies are spastic. That said, your post quoted makes you sound like an arrogant ass.

Kano weeps.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 4:03am

Knowing about Judo and being able to communicate stuff to beginners and being an arrogant arse aren't mutually exclusive chaps.

Also lol at driving people away, I've probably recruited more people into Judo then you've scored ippons. Hell I've recruited 3 late adult beginners into Judo just by posting on forums.

Sad fact is that a lot of late adult beginners are pretty useless. They don't really concentrate, they don't work as hard as they should and they spend more time making excuses then they do doing Judo. I know being old makes Judo much harder, old people don't bounce, they're slower to pick things up etc... However, that's no excuse for not taking ownership of your handicaps and taking the necessary steps to overcome them instead of just using them as a crutch to excuse laziness and lack of application.

**ty5** · Posted On: 7/12/2011 6:23pm

When I started Judo a few months back it was a mixed bag really, on a personal level most people where friendly and helpful, especially the black belts though on the other side there is a greater element of being thrown into the deep end that other martial arts I have done. The main coach though was standoffish, and is still that way.

The club could do with some more thought on the development of beginners with under a years experience, does not seem to register with the guys that run it though, not because they don't care I think it is because that is just how things have always been done, so they are replicating how they where taught (they are 50-60 years old).

If they structured things better beginners would progress much faster and be less of a risk to themselves and others.

I can understand also though why some people are wary of lower grades, the only problems I have so far have been from white belts and yellow belts. Last week I was on the receiving end of a spaz out during randori from a new guy. Week before that a yellow belt injured by shoulder by muscling through drilling a technique instead of doing it properly.