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  1. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 4:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    What UFC did do was cause the martial arts community to better respect the grappling arts. I remember as a kid talking to my gym teacher who had a black belt in karate. He told me "wrestlers don't know how to fight". Well, I doubt anyone will say that nowadays.
    Yeah they do. All the damn time. From reading YouTube comments you'd think that wrestlers are only alive and flaunting their roided-up homosexuality because people aren't allowed to elbow them in the spine or jam both thumbs into their eye sockets until goop comes out.
  2. PXM is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 6:20pm


     

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    Or there's the other end of the spectrum. Where you get comments sucking the nuts of grapplings virtues and proclaiming that any who claim otherwise face doom from a TapouT attired roid rager choking you out through their nutsack.
  3. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 6:27pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by PXM View Post
    Or there's the other end of the spectrum. Where you get comments sucking the nuts of grapplings virtues and proclaiming that any who claim otherwise face doom from a TapouT attired roid rager choking you out through their nutsack.
    Oh yeah - the 'I'd freaking destroy <current heavyweight boxing champ> with my two months of <grappling art>, man!' guy.
  4. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 8:55pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    I recognize the educational value of UFC 3, but it should be taken with a grain of salt.

    First, contrary to what the colour commentators said, it was the well conditioned athletes, not necessarily the most adept at technique who did well. It was no accident that as each UFC went by, fighters got bigger and bigger.

    Second, with the notable exceptions of Gerard Gordeau and Patrick Smith, the "punchers" -- as UFC called them -- were not elite level strikers. Funny enough, Gordeau and Smith were also the guys who advanced to the finals against Royce Gracie in UFC 1 and 2.

    Third, I found it annoying that UFC kept saying there "were no rules" when there clearly were rules.

    What UFC did do was cause the martial arts community to better respect the grappling arts. I remember as a kid talking to my gym teacher who had a black belt in karate. He told me "wrestlers don't know how to fight". Well, I doubt anyone will say that nowadays.
    what is your point on this site other than to attempt to rubbish on the UFC? honestly interested because all ive ever read of you is on this subject. this whole thread was just a setup for you to do the above post and continue trashing.

    personally i think youre just a fucking moron, but im sure there is more to it than that since i consider almost everyone i talk to a moron. in fact, when i talk to myself, i often become disgusted at what a dipshit i am.
  5. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 10:04pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    with the notable exceptions of Gerard Gordeau and Patrick Smith, the "punchers" -- as UFC called them -- were not elite level strikers. Funny enough, Gordeau and Smith were also the guys who advanced to the finals against Royce Gracie in UFC 1 and 2.
    * Art Jimmerson was at top 10 Cruiserweight when he fought in UFC 1
    * Kevin Rosier, although out of shape for UFC I, had been 3xWKA World and 1x North American superheavy weight kickboxing champion (66-8 with 66 KO's)
    * Minoki Ichihara was several time champion of Daido Juku/Kudo
    * Johnny Rhodes was not terribly notable, but had been competitive on the national Karate scene and was twice Nevada State Kickboxing Champion
    * And lets not forget Orlando Weit, who is one of the best strikers ever to appear in the UFC, and was WTC Super Middleweight World Champion in 1997

    There were a **** ton of legit strikers in UFC I and II. To those who say Royce should have fought the current world champs, I say those champs should have been matched against Mario Sperry who was the legit BJJ world champ at the time, and not Royce who was 2nd tier at best.

    Also Pat Smith advanced to the finals by beating 2 of 3 opponents with subs (standing guillotine)
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  6. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 11:22pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    what is your point on this site other than to attempt to rubbish on the UFC?
    I'm surprised you think I'm insulting the UFC -- especially since I stated explicitly that the UFC has vastly improved since UFC 3. Is this your way of saying I should eat **** and pretend it's fine French cuisine?

    How do you think UFC 3 compares to laters UFCs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    * Art Jimmerson was at top 10 Cruiserweight when he fought in UFC 1
    His most notable fight was a loss against Andrew Maynard, which was stopped in the third round on advice of the ring doctor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    * Kevin Rosier, although out of shape for UFC I, had been 3xWKA World and 1x North American superheavy weight kickboxing champion (66-8 with 66 KO's)
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    * Minoki Ichihara was several time champion of Daido Juku/Kudo
    He was a little guy who probably didn't stand much of a chance -- which reinforces what I said before: It was no accident that as each UFC went by, fighters got bigger and bigger. Either way, Daido Juku is a comparatively obscure organization and Minoki Ichihara is an obscure person -- if not for UFC 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    * Johnny Rhodes was not terribly notable, but had been competitive on the national Karate scene and was twice Nevada State Kickboxing Champion
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    * And lets not forget Orlando Weit, who is one of the best strikers ever to appear in the UFC, and was WTC Super Middleweight World Champion in 1997
    I have no idea what WTC is, but I'll take your word on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    There were a **** ton of legit strikers in UFC I and II.
    You're talking about legitimacy, and I'm talking about notability. There's no question in my mind that the strikers knew their craft. That still doesn't mean their resumes were as impressive as the grapplers.

    Royce Gracie grew up a Gracie -- second tier or otherwise, that means something. Ken Shamrock was a superstar in Japan and had his own comic book. Dan Severn had over 70 international wrestling titles. Oleg Taktarov was an undefeated Sambo champion for a 10 year stretch.

    These guys walking into the cage were at optimum physical condition. They went in to prove something, and they did it.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 12:11am

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    His most notable fight was a loss against Andrew Maynard, which was stopped in the third round on advice of the ring doctor.
    Oh, you meant famous, not good.

    He was a little guy who probably didn't stand much of a chance -- which reinforces what I said before: It was no accident that as each UFC went by, fighters got bigger and bigger. Either way, Daido Juku is a comparatively obscure organization and Minoki Ichihara is an obscure person -- if not for UFC 2.
    Oh, you meant famous, not good.

    I have no idea what WTC is
    WMTC - World Muaythai Council

    I'm not sure how this game of yours is supposed to work. You want notable Thai boxers in 1993. For realz? Rob Kaman and Stan "The Man" and that's it. And you really had to follow kickboxing to know who they were.

    You're talking about legitimacy, and I'm talking about notability. There's no question in my mind that the strikers knew their craft. That still doesn't mean their resumes were as impressive as the grapplers.
    You're kidding yourself. There was not a single world or national champion representing BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, or Sambo in the first 2 UFC's, and (ironically) the only grappler whose resume meets your criteria in UFC III is Leininger, who you didn't even mention. After him you have to wait until Amuray Bittetti and Mark Schultz before you get actual top level grapplers in the UFC.

    IIRC Melton Bowen from UFC IV had been HW champ of the WBC.
    Royce Gracie grew up a Gracie -- second tier or otherwise, that means something.
    Not in 1993 it didn't. They were known, but it wasn't know if they were legit yet.

    Ken Shamrock was a superstar in Japan and had his own comic book.
    He was known as a pro-wrestler. Pancrase was brand new (and tiny) when Ken fought in UFC I.

    Dan Severn had over 70 international wrestling titles.
    Dan Severn never made the US national team.

    Oleg Taktarov was an undefeated Sambo champion for a 10 year stretch.
    Really? Name even one year and event.

    To do that he would have had to beat Yakimov numerous times. Good luck.

    WHere are you getting this stuff?
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 7/10/2011 12:33am at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 12:32am


     Style: Judo

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    Greatest UFC ever. I totally disagree. The only one that I remember better was when the dutch kyokushin guy kicked the fat sumo guy so hard in the face his tooth flew across the ring.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  9. Holy Moment is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 12:34am

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     Style: Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Third, I found it annoying that UFC kept saying there "were no rules" when there clearly were rules.
    Although it's true that the old UFC did have a few rules (The most limited ruleset they used only disallowed biting and eye gouging), fighters could not be disqualified for breaking them. They would only have a thousand dollars of their prize money revoked for each infraction. Through this loophole, a fighter who won the tournament could've bitten or eye-gouged his opponents multiple times without a significant penalty.
  10. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 12:56am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Although it's true that the old UFC did have a few rules (The most limited ruleset they used only disallowed biting and eye gouging), fighters could not be disqualified for breaking them. They would only have a thousand dollars of their prize money revoked for each infraction. Through this loophole, a fighter who won the tournament could've bitten or eye-gouged his opponents multiple times without a significant penalty.
    Sort of. John Hess got on on the fly DQ for pushing it.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
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