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  1. Aaron Fields is offline
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    One of Seattle's Bravest

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 1:19pm


     Style: Cambo/jujutsu/judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I spent about 8 years working on Hane goshi, only to have the problem I was having solved by Jon Blumming in about 3 minutes. I will film the two versions I use most often and post them up. Jon is amazing with throw and being as big as he is sent you "ass over tea-kettle."

    I have a fair amount of success with this throw, but some of the grips I use make it tough in judo becasue of the time restrictions.

    Give me about a week and I'll get them up.

    Aaron
  2. Naszir is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 4:17pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo, SAMBO

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aaron, will one of them be the front obi pull version from the Summit a few years ago? Oddly enough, working on this throw has actually helped my uchi mata. I noticed that my sleeve grip really drives the throw and helps to glue uke to my hip. That said, I am still shaky at best with this throw. So thanks for all the help. And thanks in advance for the videos, Aaron.
  3. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 9:13pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by kultist View Post
    So after several years of thinking hane goshi was some weird-ass throw where you load someone onto your hips before sidekicking outwards between their legs for some reason, I finally realised that it's about loading up your hips to create tension (a bit like in a thai kick) before letting the hips 'spring' back into position to throw them, with the leg merely guiding the uke.

    Now that I (think I) get it, this throw seems pretty damn cool, a short, snappy technique done if you're square on to your opponent, but I've heard from just about everyone that it's a really rare technique to see in randori and competition. Why is this?
    It's relatively easy to counter is a big reason, another is it's a hard throw to do, with small margin for error, there are others that are easier (as noted, Uchi Mata, Seoi Nage, that have much lower margins for error.).

    I personally like the throw and have done it in shiai and randori, but the timing and positioning have to be perfect or it's a massive cluster f*ck.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 9:16pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naszir View Post
    Aaron, will one of them be the front obi pull version from the Summit a few years ago? Oddly enough, working on this throw has actually helped my uchi mata. I noticed that my sleeve grip really drives the throw and helps to glue uke to my hip. That said, I am still shaky at best with this throw. So thanks for all the help. And thanks in advance for the videos, Aaron.
    The whole bending the back thing as alluded to by Judoka_UK is part of getting uke "glued" to your hip/side of your body from hip to chest. A normal mistake is to not lock your hikite to your chest in either throw (or most other forward throws for that matter).

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 9:27pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    No one want to touch this one, eh? I'm not surprised.

    As the name suggests Hane goshi -Spring hip throw. Has the throwing action effected by the spring action of tori's hip.

    Daigo advocates bending back in order to perform Hane goshi, as in Uki goshi. However, although I've found bending back is actually quite helpful in achieving Uki goshi I've never been able to do it for Hane goshi.

    One of the biggest problems people have with Hane goshi is that it is incredibly difficult to get the spacing right and still be able to generate the hip spring.

    I find the classical stepping pattern





    To make it almost impossible for people to get themselves in position, have enough space, load uke and then still have something left to spring with.

    So...

    I cheat.

    Instead of stepping right, left. I step with just the left and then throw.



    Like so:



    Most people seem to find this much easier as it allows them to keep appropriate spacing and stepping in with the 'wrong' foot builds up torque in the hips that can then be released to effect the spring throwing action.

    Btw you don't want to be square on to uke like so



    You want to be T-ed up, like so

    I'm chuckling to think of all the noobs trying to do the "flamingo" type entry and bending the back at the same time. Recipe for stained backs and massive counter throws.

    Bending the back is a very important skill to have, and it takes a while to get it. It's hard to explain exactly how to do it, and I have a hard time teaching it despite the fact I can do pretty well.

    Lots of uki goshi, which tends to boor people to tears. But then I love uki goshi, so it never bothered me.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 6:18am

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'm chuckling to think of all the noobs trying to do the "flamingo" type entry and bending the back at the same time. Recipe for stained backs and massive counter throws.
    I find if you stand as if in kenka yotsu and do the 'cross step' 'flamingo entry' whatever you want to call it, that you actually bend back much more naturally.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Bending the back is a very important skill to have, and it takes a while to get it. It's hard to explain exactly how to do it, and I have a hard time teaching it despite the fact I can do pretty well.

    Lots of uki goshi, which tends to boor people to tears. But then I love uki goshi, so it never bothered me.

    Ben
    You're the first person to pick up on that I said bending back no one else has picked up on it. I'm surprised so many people know what it is...
  7. Gibbon is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 2:07pm


     Style: Judo noob, BJJ uber noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll bite - could you explain this a bit more please? Don't think I've ever heard of the concept of leaning back on a hip throw before. I've been doing a lot of work on my harai goshi for the last 8 months or so (still with no results, waah) but actually spent a session last week working on leaning forwards to draw uke up after I've got my hip in the pocket - I perpetually "over hip" into a more o goshi style position so my coach has been working on really breaking down the first steps. I can't actually work out which direction you mean by backwards tbh.
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 2:10pm

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     Style: Judo

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    I'm watching Top Gear and having a beer, so I'm just going to leave you with this

    This is the perfect example of 'leaning back' for koshi waza

  9. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 7:51pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I find if you stand as if in kenka yotsu and do the 'cross step' 'flamingo entry' whatever you want to call it, that you actually bend back much more naturally.
    Yes, and that entry is one used more in kenka yotsu situations, and I agree, it tends to end up with tori in that bent/leaning to side position. I've tried to introduce it to one of my students who does Uchi Mata for kenka yotsu situation, but the amount of coordination and control needed is substantial and he's not quite there yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    You're the first person to pick up on that I said bending back no one else has picked up on it. I'm surprised so many people know what it is...
    I remember something on JF about "bending the back", someone read it in Daigo book and wanted an explanation. Much confusion ensued as usual. Hardly anyone does Uki Goshi anymore, other than Nage No Kata, and those that do mostly do it incorrectly.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 7:53pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I'm watching Top Gear and having a beer, so I'm just going to leave you with this

    This is the perfect example of 'leaning back' for koshi waza

    LOL, that's the clip I was going to look for and post as well.

    To the guy who asked, the "float" (uki) principle is facilitated by bending the back in this case. Uke kind of lays on tori side/back and thus can be controlled.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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