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  1. kultist is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2011 9:41am


     Style: BJJ, JJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hane Goshi

    So after several years of thinking hane goshi was some weird-ass throw where you load someone onto your hips before sidekicking outwards between their legs for some reason, I finally realised that it's about loading up your hips to create tension (a bit like in a thai kick) before letting the hips 'spring' back into position to throw them, with the leg merely guiding the uke.

    Now that I (think I) get it, this throw seems pretty damn cool, a short, snappy technique done if you're square on to your opponent, but I've heard from just about everyone that it's a really rare technique to see in randori and competition. Why is this?
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2011 2:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No one want to touch this one, eh? I'm not surprised.

    As the name suggests Hane goshi -Spring hip throw. Has the throwing action effected by the spring action of tori's hip.

    Daigo advocates bending back in order to perform Hane goshi, as in Uki goshi. However, although I've found bending back is actually quite helpful in achieving Uki goshi I've never been able to do it for Hane goshi.

    One of the biggest problems people have with Hane goshi is that it is incredibly difficult to get the spacing right and still be able to generate the hip spring.

    I find the classical stepping pattern





    To make it almost impossible for people to get themselves in position, have enough space, load uke and then still have something left to spring with.

    So...

    I cheat.

    Instead of stepping right, left. I step with just the left and then throw.



    Like so:



    Most people seem to find this much easier as it allows them to keep appropriate spacing and stepping in with the 'wrong' foot builds up torque in the hips that can then be released to effect the spring throwing action.

    Btw you don't want to be square on to uke like so



    You want to be T-ed up, like so

  3. Gidi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2011 4:00pm


     Style: Judo (noob) & BJJ (noob)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know very little of Hane-Goshi,
    But you did ask for this:
    but I've heard from just about everyone that it's a really rare technique to see in randori and competition. Why is this?
    Sם I'll tell you, that according to legend, one guy in my gym who used to compete, trained for roughly 6 months in Japan and has beautiful Judo, used this throw against a terrorist and it saved his life. No ****.

    The actual story:
    Spoiler:
    Apparently, when he was a young officer in the Nabulus Kazba, somebody came at him from behind with a knife, he was able to spin in time and hane-goshi the guy on the ground and get his weapon between them when he was on the ground.
    Apparently it was in the paper at the time and it's a known story in the gym, I've never asked the guy about it, but heard the same story from quite a few people.
    I know it sounds far fetched and probably made up, and maybe it is. But maybe it's not.


    anyway, that's enough anecdote-ing on my part, carry on with the technical stuff, I'm curious.
  4. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2011 4:37pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kultist View Post
    Now that I (think I) get it, this throw seems pretty damn cool, a short, snappy technique done if you're square on to your opponent, but I've heard from just about everyone that it's a really rare technique to see in randori and competition. Why is this?
    Pretty much any time you can use hane goshi you could use uchi mata instead. For example, you can throw uchi mata from virtually the same entry j_uk posted. Uchi mata is easier and more versatile.
  5. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2011 5:34pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I almost don't believe it just because someone said they used hane-goshi!

    As to Res' statement, I do not entirely agree.

    While uchi-mata may be an easier throw, hane-goshi is not without its own applications. Hane-goshi can be a better throw for when uke is moving backwards. Can uchi-mata be used for this as well? Most definitely, but the unique springing action of hane-goshi compliments uke's movement well. This is just one example.

    Hane-goshi is in my experience, one of the most (if not THE most) improperly taught techniques in Judo. It is a very difficult technique, but it is not without its applications, and under the guidance of a good instructor is effective (still it's fucking hard).

    Like everything in Judo.

  6. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2011 8:37pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fair enough, but there's a reason uchi mata is one of the most common scoring techniques in Judo and hane goshi is almost never seen.
  7. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2011 9:10pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't get me wrong, if someone asked me whether they should concentrate heavily on uchi-mata or hane-goshi, I would say uchi-mata damn near 100% of the time.

    Fun fact though, from what I understand hane-goshi used to be a commonly scoring technique. I'll see if I can track down where I read that.

    Edit: Ok, couldn't find the source, but I seem to remember hane-goshi lost prominence in the 60s because the Soviets were excellent at countering most koshi-waza (hip techniques). This is purely from the bowels of my labyrinthine mind, and could be completely wrong.
    Last edited by Mas; 7/06/2011 9:46pm at .

  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2011 3:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Pretty much any time you can use hane goshi you could use uchi mata instead. For example, you can throw uchi mata from virtually the same entry j_uk posted. Uchi mata is easier and more versatile.
    You can use the 'slicing a throw in half' or oikomi entry for a load of throws. I've previously outlined how Koga does it for Seoi nage and Inoue for Uchi mata here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mas View Post
    Fun fact though, from what I understand hane-goshi used to be a commonly scoring technique. I'll see if I can track down where I read that.

    Edit: Ok, couldn't find the source, but I seem to remember hane-goshi lost prominence in the 60s because the Soviets were excellent at countering most koshi-waza (hip techniques). This is purely from the bowels of my labyrinthine mind, and could be completely wrong.
    Given how easy it is for people to blur the lines between a 'hippy' Uchi mata and a Hane goshi, I have come to suspect that the prevalence of Hane goshi was not actually because there were more Hane goshi rather that more people mis-reported 'hippy' Uchi mata as Hane goshi.
  9. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2011 8:00am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wouldn't be surprised, not in the least.

    Like the poetry of my story better though.

    "The evil red menace to democracy and freedom, counters all hip techniques! How will we react? The whole world's eyes are on our brave men and women, outwitting the hulking red juggernaut!"

  10. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2011 8:13am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mas View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised, not in the least.

    Like the poetry of my story better though.

    "The evil red menace to democracy and freedom, counters all hip techniques! How will we react? The whole world's eyes are on our brave men and women, outwitting the hulking red juggernaut!"
    Is this an on topic post that's discusses the thread topic in a technical way?

    No? Then what the hell is it doing in the training area?

    This is not YMAS people. Stay on topic.
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