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  1. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 7:02am

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Juggernoob View Post
    Not sure how well I can explain this, but i've been taught to grab high lapel instead of sleeve and then shoot my arm under to lock the shoulder or at least high above the elbow. Is this acceptable or am I just delaying my progress by getting too comfortable with this method?
    You mean like this?


    I started a Socratic thread on this:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106596

    Reassuringly it seems the majority of people are smart enough to spot the flaws in my argument and not just accept it because I said it.
  2. The Juggernoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 7:17am


     Style: 'Grapplin'

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks, that's a damn fine thread. Feel a bit better about it now, and feel much less inclined to attempt sleeve grip when in randori.
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 8:12am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well the up-shot of the thread was that people, correctly, saw through my argument to the important fact that you should learn it from the sleeve first to get the technique down and then practice it from the lapel.
  4. The Juggernoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 9:04am


     Style: 'Grapplin'

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    Entirely so. Recently started working through Nagano Kata so been heavy on correct form lately.
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 9:42pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    What Ben calls a back turn I call a forwards pivot and what Ben calls a front turn I call a backwards pivot, purely to confuse people reading this.

    Classically the backwards pivot is how we teach throws statically, however, its actually quite problematic for beginners because having to reverse into someone as you're pulling them forward is actually quite a complex skill.

    What I find better is teaching them to forwards pivot on the move. As that's much easier for people, because they get to preserve that forward momentum and have fewer spacing issues on entry. Its a little bit more complex for uke, because with a beginner you have to compensate for their errors.

    Actually I was just thinking, wouldn't it be awesome if a very handsome, witty and eminently plus reppable Judo black belt had written an article explaining to beginners how to do a forward pivot for moving uchikomi practice. Wouldn't that be great...




    Bugger that. I wouldn't have been messing around trying to keep a worthless and unprofitable colony. I'd have been in India making loadsa money turning myself into a Nabob.
    Good lord, now you are really going to confuse people. How can a front turning pivot be a back turning tai sabaki? My head hurts!

    So, we are in agreement that however wrong your terminology is, it's best to teach noobs to turn away from uke as uke moves towards them, just so people won't be even more confused?

    So, the first examples are what I call a back turning tai sabaki-ushiro mawari tai sabaki. Note how tori turns away from uke.


    Here is a version of the front turning tai sabaki with uke moving backwards.


    And here is an example of what I call front turning tai sabaki done statically. Watch carefully and you can see the dangers of learning statically with this tai sabaki for most forward throws. The guy doing the examples is very good, btw, so this is not a criticism of his technique. I'm pretty sure I've fought him in shiai and he destroyed me.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2011 9:45pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Your coach doesn't already have you doing moving uchikomi going backwards?
    I'm familiar with his home club. Very traditional in many respects.

    You and I are cutting edge, my friend. The future of Judo training!
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. Masaka! is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 1:41am


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo

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    about "over-rotation", during training yesterday the first ever judo olympic competitor from my country came over to give us some pointers since the junior nationals are next week.
    he told us to turn as much as possible after loading uke onto the back, encouraging us to go the full 360 degrees if possible. i heard from my seniors that in his prime, he used to pivot on his right foot while doing seoi nage and twisted way beyond just 180 degrees.
    i assume the over-rotation you refer to is before uke is pulled onto the back?
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 6:15am

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    So, we are in agreement that however wrong your terminology is, it's best to teach noobs to turn away from uke as uke moves towards them, just so people won't be even more confused?
    I was reading Inman's 'Judo Japanese for Dummies' and we should really be refering to Mae- Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki and Gyaku-Mae-Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'm familiar with his home club. Very traditional in many respects.

    You and I are cutting edge, my friend. The future of Judo training!
    Is it actually unusual, because every club I've ever been to has done both Mae-Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki and Gyaku-Mae-Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki on the move...

    Quote Originally Posted by Masaka! View Post
    about "over-rotation", during training yesterday the first ever judo olympic competitor from my country came over to give us some pointers since the junior nationals are next week.
    he told us to turn as much as possible after loading uke onto the back, encouraging us to go the full 360 degrees if possible. i heard from my seniors that in his prime, he used to pivot on his right foot while doing seoi nage and twisted way beyond just 180 degrees.
    i assume the over-rotation you refer to is before uke is pulled onto the back?
    Yes over rotation refers to tsukuri not kake.



    Once uke is loaded onto your back and locked up. Then you can rotate as much as you want.
  9. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2011 8:23pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I was reading Inman's 'Judo Japanese for Dummies' and we should really be refering to Mae- Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki and Gyaku-Mae-Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki.


    Is it actually unusual, because every club I've ever been to has done both Mae-Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki and Gyaku-Mae-Ushiro-Mawari-Hiki-Dashi-Tai-Sabaki on the move...


    Yes over rotation refers to tsukuri not kake.



    Once uke is loaded onto your back and locked up. Then you can rotate as much as you want.
    Stop it (hands over eyes), runs screaming from room.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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