comparing different Knockdown Karate Dojos in NYC?

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 8:50am

Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese

Not far off I'd say as a bunch of Knockdown Karate practitioners have gone on to stunning kickboxing careers, not to mention the fact that K-1 was formed from Seidokaikan competitions.

All three are good choices IMO, it all depends on your personal tastes.

Whoa, man, chill. There's tons of different karate's out there (Yeah, I saw your post on the other thread about "real karate" or "pure" or whatever you called it, no need to post that again e_e ) but the fact of the matter that these particular schools are Knockdown Karate styles, and that's how they roll.

Now, I don't know (having never been to these schools), but they may in fact have some form of karate-grappling training there and some Knockdown styles actively incorporate it into their kumite (Enshin, right? The web sucks here so I can't go off and look up a bunch **** willy-nilly).

And Judo technically has strikes in it, though I only ever saw them in class at one of the dojos I went to and it was maybe once a blue moon and mostly because the teacher was bored or feeling silly or something. Does that mean I didn't study t3h r34l Judo (rhetorical, I have expired membership slips with both the USJF and USJA)?

You need to realize that there is more to karate than what you think karate is (I've seen what you think karate is elsewhere) and maybe take a step off your high horse a bit.

(If you don't like what I said, then please respond via PM; this thread doesn't deserve to be bogged down with two knuckleheads bickering about what's t3h r34l karate)

BACK ON TOPIC: Both those schools' channels are cool (didn't watch all the vids, again web sucks here I felt lucky to load BS this evening) when I in the States I dreamed of training at a solid Knockdown school, but sadly there weren't many choices in the area ;_;

I recommend definitely trying both out, get a sense of the place and the commute as well, and then writing a very detailed and in depth analysis of your karate journey for those poor saps who grew up training McDojo Krotty and who will most likely never get to taste the sweet nectar of Kyokushin/Others. If you do that for me, sir, and keep an updated training log to boot then when I make enough money to make it back to the US and next NYC TD I would love to shake your hand, and then beat each other senseless (for the fun of it). Oh, and I'll also get you a link to my fantastic and mesmerizing tale of blood, sweat, tears, and sadistic little Thai men. (Don't make me beg)

^ At the very least keep us updated on your selection and first impressions.

There is karate, as developed in Okinawa. This is before it was adopted into the school systems and neutered. Then there is modern karate in Okinawa, the karate that was brought to mainland Japan and then there is karate in the rest of the world. Yes, I suppose you can call all these things karate. However, to me "real karate" is just that, the karate as it was developed as a true and complete fighting system way back when. It is almost impossible to find a place that teaches it. Heck, it almost doesn't exist even on Okinawa.

My point is this, people train in styles such as Kyokushin karate predominately to develop their striking for MMA. That is fine to do, but I don't understand why you wouldn't just study Muay Thai or Kickboxing instead, rather than waste their time learning karate stuff they will never use in an mma fight such as kata. Perhaps this is just my ignorance about Kyokushin. But kickboxing and Muay Thai just seem like a much more direct route to developing striking skills.

**Lindz** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 12:55pm

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

blah blah blahdy blah.

Did you miss this bit?

Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese

(Yeah, I saw your post on the other thread about "real karate" or "pure" or whatever you called it, no need to post that again e_e )

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

My point is this, people train in styles such as Kyokushin karate predominately to develop their striking for MMA. That is fine to do, but I don't understand why you wouldn't just study Muay Thai or Kickboxing instead, rather than waste their time learning karate stuff they will never use in an mma fight such as kata. Perhaps this is just my ignorance about Kyokushin. But kickboxing and Muay Thai just seem like a much more direct route to developing striking skills.

Pretty sure most people do karate of whatever kind for its own sake. You know it sounds like you're saying muay thai and kickboxing are better than karate

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 2:02pm

Originally Posted by Lindz

Did you miss this bit?

Pretty sure most people do karate of whatever kind for its own sake. You know it sounds like you're saying muay thai and kickboxing are better than karate

I have been studying karate for 20+ years and value it more each year. I think you should read what I wrote more carefully.

**Lindz** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 4:08pm

why, what did i miss the first time?

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 4:43pm

Originally Posted by Lindz

why, what did i miss the first time?

I was speaking about training for an MMA fight. I believe it is better to take Muay Thai or Kickboxing to learn how to strike. Why would you want to waste your time learning a whole bunch of karate that you will never use in an MMA fight to learn how to strike? If you want to learn karate, fine, that is great. However, it seems fruitless to spend all that extra time learning aspects of karate that you won't use when you can better dedicate your time to the striking that you will.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 8/01/2011 3:24am

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

Why would you want to waste your time learning a whole bunch of karate that you will never use in an MMA fight to learn how to strike?

Youu can use takedowns in an MMA fight... And standing joint locks if you can get them. Watch Lyoto Machida, he does a lot of karate take-downs and throws.

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 8/01/2011 8:17am

This is all besides the point of the thread anyways. I mean, look, no where was karate or competition or anything of that nature brought up in the OP or anywhere else until you butted in with your stupid ass remarks on a style of karate you have no clue about. You brought up MMA, and it honestly doesn't belong here.

If you want to learn karate, fine, that is great.

And that's what the whole thread is about, finding them a dojo. e_e

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

But if they want to train karate then they should train at a proper dojo, even if real ones are almost impossible to find outside of Okinawa, and learn aaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllll of the techniques in True Karate instead of just a shadow of its True Nature and Okinawan Te Glory which is a complete art.

So? You're not the one looking for the school. You're part of the peanut gallery, and since you have in no way helped the OP or have any relevant commentary other than to **** on another form of karate then just shut up.

How about some grappling you know throws, sweeps, joint locks, etc.? All I see is kicks and punches

And I would love to see what kind of sparring/kumite/whatever your dojo does.

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 8/01/2011 8:19am

This is all besides the point of the thread anyways. I mean, look, no where was MMA or competition or anything of that nature brought up in the OP or anywhere else until you butted in with your stupid ass remarks on a style of karate you have no clue about. You brought up MMA, and it honestly doesn't belong here.

If you want to learn karate, fine, that is great.

And that's what the whole thread is about, finding them a dojo. e_e

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

But if they want to train karate then they should train at a proper dojo, even if real ones are almost impossible to find outside of Okinawa, and learn aaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllll of the techniques in True Karate instead of just a shadow of its True Nature and Okinawan Te Glory which is a complete art.

So? You're not the one looking for the school. You're part of the peanut gallery, and since you have in no way helped the OP or have any relevant commentary other than to **** on another form of karate then just shut up.

How about some grappling you know throws, sweeps, joint locks, etc.? All I see is kicks and punches

And I would love to see what kind of sparring/kumite/whatever your dojo does.

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 8/01/2011 2:06pm

Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn

Youu can use takedowns in an MMA fight... And standing joint locks if you can get them. Watch Lyoto Machida, he does a lot of karate take-downs and throws.

Of course you can. Question is, what is the OP looking to learn?

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 8/01/2011 2:10pm

Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese

This is all besides the point of the thread anyways. I mean, look, no where was MMA or competition or anything of that nature brought up in the OP or anywhere else until you butted in with your stupid ass remarks on a style of karate you have no clue about. You brought up MMA, and it honestly doesn't belong here.

And that's what the whole thread is about, finding them a dojo. e_e

So? You're not the one looking for the school. You're part of the peanut gallery, and since you have in no way helped the OP or have any relevant commentary other than to **** on another form of karate then just shut up.

And I would love to see what kind of sparring/kumite/whatever your dojo does.

Don't you think it is most important to understand WHAT the op is seeking from karate in order to direct them to what kind of dojo makes the most sense? If they are looking to just do knock down all out sparring, do you want to send them to a dojo that makes you wait 6+ years to do so? If the OP does kickboxing and wants to learn all kinds of grappling, does it make sense to send them to a Kyokushin dojo that does none?