comparing different Knockdown Karate Dojos in NYC?

**asura111** · Posted On: 7/01/2011 1:03pm

A while back I read online about a Seido Kaikan Dojo by Queens, NY, and wanted to jump on the opportunity to train with the organization Masaaki Satake trained at and if which, Andy Hug trained others (he was originally from Kyokushin). However, I soon found out that I was a few years late as the President of Seido Kaikan USA resigned and retired from the martial arts.

So I began looking into other similar gyms in the 5 boroughs. I do not have a car, nor do I want to take PATH, Metro North, or LIRR whenever I train so thus I narrowed it down to three dojos in Manhattan. They are Shin Kyokushin Kaikan WKO's Sato Dojo, the independent Iwata Dojo, and Kenwakan's SFMAI location run by a former Seido Kaikan competitor. Has anyone trained or know people who trained under Sensei Tetsuya Sato, Sensei Hiro Iwata, and Sensei Michelle Gay? If so, what is an average class like in the three schools? Which of the three place the most emphasis on sparring?

I will go to try a class for each but I don't know how much I would gage from just a short span (though Iwata and WKO use the same space. I know Sensei Iwata and Sato are friends but it might look awkward if someone chose one over the other).

**ojgsxr6** · Posted On: 7/01/2011 1:20pm

Don't just go for one class, drop in on the middle of a couple of classes and ask questions. Ask how often do you guys spar, ask does anyone compete in knockdown tournaments. See if not only the instructors compete but the students too. Drop in on their sparring classes see the level of intensity, does it range from light to hard?

**Bugeisha** · Posted On: 7/05/2011 12:30am

I have friends who train at Iwata dojo; it's a solid place. I've only trained with that dojo a couple of times, but it was always a good experience, and Iwata's a great guy. Highly recommend it for knockdown training. Sato's a good guy as well, but I haven't trained with him really so I can't say too much in terms of direct experience with that.

Just remembered Iwata has a youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/IwataDojo

**kolsyrade** · Posted On: 7/06/2011 3:52pm

Originally Posted by Bugeisha

Just remembered Iwata has a youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/IwataDojo

So do Sato
http://www.youtube.com/user/satodojo

**Bugeisha** · Posted On: 7/08/2011 8:20am

So they do!

**Octo-Kappa** · Posted On: 7/13/2011 1:17pm

asura111, have you checked out any of those schools yet?
Coincidentally I will be checking out Iwata Dojo this friday (7/15) or the following Tuesday. I have been to KKNY & Seido NYC(Nakamura) so far but the tuition cost & class schedule of Iwata as well as the recommendations on this site have been pushing me in that direction.

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/29/2011 7:50am

I see that kind of sparring as just kickboxing and not really karate. Its great if that is what you are into, but why not just find a good kickboxing or muay thai place?

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 7/29/2011 7:52am

Originally Posted by Matsubayashi

I see that kind of sparring as just kickboxing and not really karate. Its great if that is what you are into, but why not just find a good kickboxing or muay thai place?

What would they have to add to be more than 'just kick-boxing' in your opinion?

**Matsubayashi** · Posted On: 7/29/2011 8:05am

Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn

What would they have to add to be more than 'just kick-boxing' in your opinion?

How about some grappling you know throws, sweeps, joint locks, etc.? All I see is kicks and punches. What the heck is the point of studying karate if you are going to leave half of it in some kata?

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 7/31/2011 7:40am

I see that kind of sparring as just kickboxing

Not far off I'd say as a bunch of Knockdown Karate practitioners have gone on to stunning kickboxing careers, not to mention the fact that K-1 was formed from Seidokaikan competitions.

why not just find a good kickboxing or muay thai place?

All three are good choices IMO, it all depends on your personal tastes.

How about some grappling you know throws, sweeps, joint locks, etc.? All I see is kicks and punches. What the heck is the point of studying karate if you are going to leave half of it in some kata?

Whoa, man, chill. There's tons of different karate's out there (Yeah, I saw your post on the other thread about "real karate" or "pure" or whatever you called it, no need to post that again e_e ) but the fact of the matter that these particular schools are Knockdown Karate styles, and that's how they roll.

Now, I don't know (having never been to these schools), but they may in fact have some form of karate-grappling training there and some Knockdown styles actively incorporate it into their kumite (Enshin, right? The web sucks here so I can't go off and look up a bunch **** willy-nilly).

And Judo technically has strikes in it, though I only ever saw them in class at one of the dojos I went to and it was maybe once a blue moon and mostly because the teacher was bored or feeling silly or something. Does that mean I didn't study t3h r34l Judo (rhetorical, I have expired membership slips with both the USJF and USJA)?

You need to realize that there is more to karate than what you think karate is (I've seen what you think karate is elsewhere) and maybe take a step off your high horse a bit.

(If you don't like what I said, then please respond via PM; this thread doesn't deserve to be bogged down with two knuckleheads bickering about what's t3h r34l karate)

BACK ON TOPIC: Both those schools' channels are cool (didn't watch all the vids, again web sucks here I felt lucky to load BS this evening) when I in the States I dreamed of training at a solid Knockdown school, but sadly there weren't many choices in the area ;_;

I recommend definitely trying both out, get a sense of the place and the commute as well, and then writing a very detailed and in depth analysis of your karate journey for those poor saps who grew up training McDojo Krotty and who will most likely never get to taste the sweet nectar of Kyokushin/Others. If you do that for me, sir, and keep an updated training log to boot then when I make enough money to make it back to the US and next NYC TD I would love to shake your hand, and then beat each other senseless (for the fun of it). Oh, and I'll also get you a link to my fantastic and mesmerizing tale of blood, sweat, tears, and sadistic little Thai men. (Don't make me beg)

^ At the very least keep us updated on your selection and first impressions.