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  1. Super8astard is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2011 6:03pm


     Style: Issh"i"nryu fixed....

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Some, but not all. Match making for him can be like Russian roulette unless he's pitted against an outright tomato can or an entry-level fighter.

    Every single boxer in the world has horrid fighters on their resume, even guys like Lennox Lewis fought worthless turds for much of his career, which make up most of his KO wins and is what got him ranked in the first place. Although they aren't technically paid to lose, they know thats why they're there, and thats how a lot of them pay the bills so they don't want to **** it up by winning. Even if Kimbo fights a bunch of these guys, it won't be much different from any other fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    I don't think he's a horrendous fighter, just that way too many people overestimate his competence in the ring (Even people who don't like him). A lot of his appeal is simply based on him looking tough, and his much touted punching ability isn't that special at all.

    Gonna disagree there, he hits hard and clean. Maybe not as hard as some of the other guys, but he's remarkably accurate for a HW with such little elite experience, and thats pretty rare. A good boxing trainer is only going to make him better.

    At the same time, I agree completely. I just made him sound better than he really is just by saying that^. Yes he's over-rated, but so is Overeem, that doesn't mean he's not still good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Ignoring the hype, though, I'd say his stint in MMA was fairly respectable.

    I'm honestly suprised to see that. Most people, even guys who like him, cut up on his compition and accomplishments. It's always good to see a non-bias fight fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    His popularity earned him the spotlight on a few high profile MMA events. It didn't earn him a top ten ranking. It won't him a top ten ranking in boxing, either, even if his popularity actually translates over to the boxing community.
    But MMA rankings are whole different thing. If you're not a Zuffa fighter, you have to work even harder to get noticed at all. In boxing ranking is a tool for title fights. Syd Vanderpool and Clinton Woods were considered top contenders or their title fights despite not being ranked before them. I hate to say it, but boxing rankings don't really mean much, and Kimbo could get ranked with only a few fights since he's comming from another sport and has such a high stigma attached to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Best case scenario for Kimbo is that his management carefully watches out for him and he makes some bucks as a gimmick fighter. Otherwise, he gets knocked out again by another fighter nobody knows and his promoters are left to figure out how to stretch his fifteen minutes once more.

    I would say that this would be the worst case scenario for him. Best case is he get several entertaining KO's over a bunch of guys no one knows and loses a contender fight or a title fight. Which ever way it goes, Kimbo is gonna make some money, put on a few good shows, and bring some much needed spotlight to boxing even if they are just gimmick fights. ****, even Holyfield still gets PPV's.

    And besides, the exact same thing could be said of Rahman, and he took a title from one of the best HW's in history. Everyone said Wlad was washed up after the Sanders fight and look at him now. Losing to a journeymen doesn't spell doom, specialy for a high profile fighter like Kimbo. It may be generalizing to say every fighter is a cherry picker, but all of them have at one point. It's expected that Kimbo does the same.
  2. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2011 9:34pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every single boxer in the world has horrid fighters on their resume, even guys like Lennox Lewis fought worthless turds for much of his career, which make up most of his KO wins and is what got him ranked in the first place. Although they aren't technically paid to lose, they know thats why they're there, and thats how a lot of them pay the bills so they don't want to **** it up by winning. Even if Kimbo fights a bunch of these guys, it won't be much different from any other fighter.
    The guys Lennox Lewis beat early on in his career would still be able to beat Kimbo. Being a tomato can is a relative position in this case. Against elite boxers, many otherwise respectable fighters would be considered tomato cans. Kimbo skills are not at an elite level, however, so many fighters who are tomato cans would be considered tough and experienced opposition for Kimbo.

    Gonna disagree there, he hits hard and clean. Maybe not as hard as some of the other guys, but he's remarkably accurate for a HW with such little elite experience, and thats pretty rare.
    He hits hard compared to the guys he was fighting in his backyard. In the context of professional fighting, however, he doesn't stand out from the crowd. Seriously, when did he ever wow you?

    Granted he has a knack for throwing a punch, but the only way he would have been something special is if he got into the game way earlier.

    A good boxing trainer is only going to make him better.
    There's not exactly a big window of opportunity for this considering Kimbo's age. He also has other deficiencies besides skill that would need to be improved, such as stamina and heart. Not to mention he's spent the last several years learning a different game and developing habits designed specifically for that game. It's not like he can just turn back the clock to prepare himself to fight someone who's been in boxing since before he was beating fat guys up in parking lots.

    How many mandatory nobodies did B-hop or Roy Jones defend their titles against?

    At the same time, I agree completely. I just made him sound better than he really is just by saying that^. Yes he's over-rated, but so is Overeem, that doesn't mean he's not still good.

    And besides, the exact same thing could be said of Rahman, and he took a title from one of the best HW's in history. Everyone said Wlad was washed up after the Sanders fight and look at him now. Losing to a journeymen doesn't spell doom, specialy for a high profile fighter like Kimbo. It may be generalizing to say every fighter is a cherry picker, but all of them have at one point. It's expected that Kimbo does the same.
    You're making way too many comparisons between Kimbo and accomplished champion fighters in your posts. Kimbo's a high profile fighter because he looks tough and was already a celebrity from his Youtube videos. He didn't earn his attention by displaying a level of talent that caught people's eyes, beating someone of significance, or becoming a champion.

    You can't criticize champion fighters the same way you can criticize Kimbo. There's a difference between padding your record with nobodies and basing your entire career on nobodies. Some fighters like Overeem may be overrated at the elite level, but Kimbo became the face of MMA for beating guys up in his backyard. That's a different level of overrated.
  3. Super8astard is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2011 11:16pm


     Style: Issh"i"nryu fixed....

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    The guys Lennox Lewis beat early on in his career would still be able to beat Kimbo. Being a tomato can is a relative position in this case. Against elite boxers, many otherwise respectable fighters would be considered tomato cans. Kimbo skills are not at an elite level, however, so many fighters who are tomato cans would be considered tough and experienced opposition for Kimbo.
    That's probably true, but it was likely in mma as well and did pretty good considering. Even in getting tore up by Mitrione, he owned him in the first round and if not for the leg kicks he most likely would've continued to pound on him. Now we know Mitrione is a tough bastard and Kimbo is the only person to have given him any trouble since back when he was just a reality tv show fighter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    He hits hard compared to the guys he was fighting in his backyard. In the context of professional fighting, however, he doesn't stand out from the crowd. Seriously, when did he ever wow you?
    The same can be said of most of the HW division right now. I mean I'm sure several HW's can hit harder, but not by enough to call it an advantage. You actually hit harder with boxing gloves than mma gloves, you just can't place punches like you can with the 4oz pads they wear. I think the transition to the 10oz gloves is going to be tough for Kimbo to be honest...

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    Granted he has a knack for throwing a punch, but the only way he would have been something special is if he got into the game way earlier.

    There's not exactly a big window of opportunity for this considering Kimbo's age. He also has other deficiencies besides skill that would need to be improved, such as stamina and heart. Not to mention he's spent the last several years learning a different game and developing habits designed specifically for that game. It's not like he can just turn back the clock to prepare himself to fight someone who's been in boxing since before he was beating fat guys up in parking lots.
    Can't argue with time. That's why I said Kimbo should've went straight into boxing in the first place in my OP.

    But, a lot of current boxers are people who just started doing it. There is a huge gap in the level of current HW's. There's the top ten, then guys with nothing else to do. It's not really fair to question his heart when his body is the problem. In a straight boxing match, he'll go until the ref physically holds him down.

    And his mma training wasn't much more diverse than a boxer's. He knew he wouldn't develop a ground game or good kicks, so he still focused on his hands. He also wasn't trainig long enough in mma to have set habits. It will take some un-learning sure, but nothing like if Bones were to jump into boxing. Then again, any un-learning is time he doesn't have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    You're making way too many comparisons between Kimbo and accomplished champion fighters in your posts. Kimbo's a high profile fighter because he looks tough and was already a celebrity from his Youtube videos. He didn't earn his attention by displaying a level of talent that caught people's eyes, beating someone of significance, or becoming a champion.

    You can't criticize champion fighters the same way you can criticize Kimbo. There's a difference between padding your record with nobodies and basing your entire career on nobodies. Some fighters like Overeem may be overrated at the elite level, but Kimbo became the face of MMA for beating guys up in his backyard. That's a different level of overrated.
    I don't mean for it to be a comparison the way you are taking it. I'm just pointing out that even at the highest level of boxing, guys are still fighting cans. There is an over abundance of tune-up fighters to feed Kimbo with. And it's not just money for Kimbo, many promoters are going to want to cash in on Kimbo's market value. Both in the form of feeding their own fighters to him and getting an easy payday, and the high rollers wanting their cut. Even at his age, he could easily get enough wins to get ranked. Hence the Vand'r reference, a 50 year old man with start power can still carry a PPV despite his fans knowing he's going to lose. I didn't mean for it to sound like Kimbo is on the same level or anything.

    The only difference, in Kimbo's case, with padding numbers and making a career of beating fodder is that when Kimbo gets to the point where he gets contender fights or even a title shot, will be the end of it even he manages to pull off a miracle and capture a title. Like you said earlier, the sands are filling up the glass. Kimbo's career won't last long enough to get past the number padding. Again, that's part of why he should've went straight to boxing, thats 5 years he could've been building already.
  4. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2011 11:27pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Heck, why don't we just say what we mean? Kimbo IS a tomato can.
    It's nothing to feel too bad about, hell: I'm a tomato can, too.

  5. Eddie Hardon is online now

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    Posted On:
    7/02/2011 7:33am


     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    This gentleman would like to have a word with you:
    Wow, I'm wrong again...Thank you Mr Suit, PBF is soooo articulate (until he opens his mouth). Great skills.

    Over here, the pink gloves are worn by the ladies for the Boxaerobic classes - that was in my fevered, desperate Mind.

    Anyway, what a day. Tour de France now on TV (come on Cavendish, Wiggins), Haye v Vlad tonight (I'm booking it in the next 10 mins), UFC tonight at 3AM-6AM. So, the question is, will I get up off this couch? No. I was training last night and need the Rest.
  6. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/02/2011 11:58am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    Butterbean Mark II
    Butterbean would cream him IMO.

    EDIT: Read the rest of the thread. Yeah, it would be ugly. Let's not compare the Bean to a pro no0b. I would pay to see it though.
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 7/02/2011 12:03pm at .
  7. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/02/2011 12:00pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Butterbean would cream him IMO.
    Only too easily. Butterbean can KO someone in 30 seconds. Kimbo gasses out in 30 seconds. There is a difference.
  8. RaiderFunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2011 9:56pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    Colin - you shouldn't post kimbo's picture so close to yours...despite a little pigmentation variance, the resemblance is striking.
    made me spit up my soda. That's truth right there!
  9. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 4:27pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kimbo Slice's opponent has been named and it's... James Wade! He's compiled an astonishing record of 0-1!
  10. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2011 5:07pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    War Wade!
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