What can you learn in an hour of Aikido?

**yli** · Posted On: 6/26/2011 10:12pm

No, Taijiquan in action looks like this:

It resembles regular Sanshou because most CMAs tend to converge on that one spot anyway if trained full contact-y enough.

**DARPAChief** · Posted On: 6/26/2011 10:17pm

Huh, looks kinda like Judo...there's a connection here, I swear.

**yli** · Posted On: 6/26/2011 10:33pm

Sanshou has a great deal of shuai jiao (wrestling), qin na (stand up grappling) and some elements of internal martial arts like bagua, taiji, xingyi, etc. That's probably what you're seeing when you're making the connections with Judo.

As a note, the coach of the Chinese national Judo team is a shuai jiao expert.

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 6/27/2011 2:40am

Originally Posted by Evergrey

What does an Aikido practitioner do if they don't quite manage to get the wrist or hand or what have you on the first punch, and their assailant comes after them with 2 or 3 more hard strikes in quick succession?

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

In their (fantasy) world, it never happens. There is no jab in Aikido-land, nor is there clinch.

I'm going to treat these as pretty much the same question, as the answer is basically the same: Kuzushi.

No one should be trying to get that hand or wrist or that stage. The attacker posture/stability needs to be broken before any 'technique' is attempted. This is no different from Judo at that stage. I don't think any Judoka would be trying to start a throw by snatching a jab out of the air either.

The Aikidoka should be entering hard, and trying for the crapple. In doing so should be trying to get kuzushi. This most often attempted by either:

A. Twisting the opponents body from the elbow or shoulder as you enter
B. Pulling the head-end towards you
C. punching the head-end away from you

Should you be successful at this stage, you can transfer to wrist control, but you'd have to be a fucking idiot to move your focus away from a controlled core, to an isolated extremity unless there was a weapon involved.

Wristlocks are a massive focal point in aikido because many of the attacks in day-to-day training start from a grab. In that situation, a wristlock makes sense because it's essentially offered. Attempting the same from a strike of flurry of strikes is silly.
(I won't say its a strawman argument though, as I've seen it taught too often, but it shouldn't be.)

TL;DR
1. Body control, not wrist control.
2. Body control then wrist control if armed.

I'm not pretending any of the above is high-percentage d34dly or anything. Just that the suggestion that Aikidoka should be snatching punches out of the air like catching flies with chopsticks is simply not right.

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

Funny story: we had an Aikido guy start at my judo club. I did aikido years ago and am familiar with the techniques. I had him put in me any ikkyo pin he wanted and proceeded to demonstrate how it didn't work on a resisting opponent who knew what he was doing. And then I wrecked him in ne waza with, literally, my legs tied together.

So you're saying that you allowed the guy to apply the weakest thing in his entire syllabus, and then Pwnd him with the strongest thing in yours?

**donoraen** · Posted On: 6/27/2011 3:12am

Originally Posted by yli

I think the only safe martial art on this website is...

Is there one?

Probably limalama, just because nobody knows what it is. Secret art ftw.

**Colin** · Posted On: 6/27/2011 3:15am

Originally Posted by donoraen

Probably limalama, just because nobody knows what it is. Secret art ftw.

It's the way to enlightenment and betterment of the world through kajukenbo type style melding from a slightly different lineage through SE Asia right?

(I know this because they have a naked man in their logo)

**Aikironin21** · Posted On: 6/27/2011 4:42am

You shouldn't expect to learn anything in an hour of anything. Hopefully, in the first hour you would learn to get off the line of attack. Mr. Miyagi was right again when he said "best block no be there." That really is the only move Aikido has. Get the EFF out of the way of whatever is coming at you.

That being said, what LEOs are taught is not an hour of Aikido. At least not back in 1997, when I went through the academy. When some cadets asked instructors what we would be learning during arrest and control, the answer was simply "defensive techniques based on Aikido" once we started this training, it was clear the only thing similar to Aikido was some wrist positions during some come along movements. Hamni was replaced by a basic stance that was very unstable compared to hamni. There was no emphasis on controlling the "attacker's" center or unifying your own. So though it may have been Aikido based, it was not Aikido.

At that time I had three years of Aikido experience, I walked through that class, and could have each of the trainers. Shoot, anyone with a high pain tolerance could have. I wouldn't even have tried with the Senior Master Trainer. Then again, he wouldn't have wasted his time with what POST deemed sufficient and necessary. During side-handle he actually popped my room mate in the forehead with the short portion. Just to prove a point. We were told to learn it for certification and forget it. None of it was approved for use on the line in CDC.

Oddly enough, the only approved control hold at the time was a wrist lock utilizing the side-handle baton. It was a wrist hook technique that damn near everyone discounted because they believed it was too risky and technical to ever really work. I can say I saw it work three times in my career. Once by me, once by another officer, and then another officer used it but with an ankle instead of a wrist. We spent less time learning this wrist hook technique than all of the arrest and control stuff for post. It was pretty straight forward though.

I would bet most if not all LE agencies would not invest the time needed to teach the concepts that make Aikido work. I had three years of training before hitting the line, but it wasn't till I got to apply what I had learned on resisting inmates, that I learned how to apply the techniques effectively.

Just something as simple as maintaining my center line, standing in hamni, or connecting with movement, while talking to a pissed off inmate can make the difference between him thinking he has an opportunity to assault you, or not. Even this won't come in an hour though.

**donoraen** · Posted On: 6/27/2011 5:28am

Originally Posted by Colin

It's the way to enlightenment and betterment of the world through type style melding from a slightly different lineage through SE Asia right?

(I know this because they have a naked man in their logo)

The naked guy does speak volumes towards the glory, philosophy and D3@dlyness of the art, one must learn to read between the penis..er..lines to obtain the real however.

**arsonist** · Posted On: 6/27/2011 7:53am

I would pay to see that (the "aikiLOCAS") trying to ressist the judo guys, how come theres never any video of good stuff like that?!

**DARPAChief** · Posted On: 6/27/2011 8:31am

Originally Posted by erezb

Boxing is not a martial art, its science (sweet science). And a Gentleman's sport. No body claims it is the complete martial art/SD, but i still would advice against messing with a professional boxer.
By the way, can anybody tell me why they call it the sweet science? there is nothing sweet in blood and sweat. they should call it the sweat science. Though if you ever conected with a solid counter punch and knocked down an opponent, it's sweeter than chocolate.
By the way Aikido is the only "martial art" i think is less affective than just lifting weights. Its good for people not wanting to feel strain and pain but still want to feel like they have a chance against someone in a fight.

Whatever head protection you're using, it isn't enough.