Replacement Certificates what is the answer?

**MasterYourself** · Posted On: 6/28/2011 4:05am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Then you go somewhere pay your money and get ranked again through a legit org. Yes, that happened to someone that posted here. There are a myriad ways to try and get a n old rank certificate. There is nor reason for some random guy to forge, yes that is what he is doing, replacements. Yes, if you kept your color belt and remade your Black Belt that would make you a forger as well.

Then again, you are dancing around Henry T's point. The guy is replacing any and every type of certificate including military and School Diplomas. You focusing on one small aspect is wrong. As two out of the three can be replaced by the organizations that still exist. I've seen people get old diplomas back form defunct schools because, the records are kept somewhere and not destroyed.

Thanks for the replies.

You might be surprised of how difficult that is, most will simply not do it, others will not do it without you learning all of their patterns, I no longer have interest in patterns and have abandoned that practice some time ago. Opinions may vary, but patterns are just that and serve little value in self-defense practicing each move to me is a better way to go, I feel it is easier to flow then because your not practicing combinations that most likely will not fit into the fight as a whole and instead can flow to what is available, I do not feel that rank should be so dependent on patterns particularly since they vary. Basicly you run into the same thing you see in the forums here, my black belt is more legitimate than yours I am better than you, etc., etc. There is much more money in discrediting you and getting you to enroll at a lower rank. Well yes you can get a copy of your discharge and diploma so no there really is no excuse for that.

**Larus marinus** · Posted On: 6/28/2011 6:21am

Originally Posted by MasterYourself

Thanks for the replies.

You might be surprised of how difficult that is, most will simply not do it, others will not do it without you learning all of their patterns, I no longer have interest in patterns and have abandoned that practice some time ago. Opinions may vary, but patterns are just that and serve little value in self-defense practicing each move to me is a better way to go, I feel it is easier to flow then because your not practicing combinations that most likely will not fit into the fight as a whole and instead can flow to what is available, I do not feel that rank should be so dependent on patterns particularly since they vary. Basicly you run into the same thing you see in the forums here, my black belt is more legitimate than yours I am better than you, etc., etc. There is much more money in discrediting you and getting you to enroll at a lower rank. Well yes you can get a copy of your discharge and diploma so no there really is no excuse for that.

What's ur budo? There might be some people on here who can help you out, or point you in the right direction of someone who can sort you out (legitimately, I mean).

Never know until you ask, huh?

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 6/28/2011 6:44am

If you don't care about the patterns that constituted your belt then why care about the belt?

**HenryT** · Posted On: 6/28/2011 3:00pm

Originally Posted by MasterYourself

Thanks for the replies.

You might be surprised of how difficult that is, most will simply not do it, others will not do it without you learning all of their patterns, I no longer have interest in patterns and have abandoned that practice some time ago. Opinions may vary, but patterns are just that and serve little value in self-defense practicing each move to me is a better way to go, I feel it is easier to flow then because your not practicing combinations that most likely will not fit into the fight as a whole and instead can flow to what is available, I do not feel that rank should be so dependent on patterns particularly since they vary. Basicly you run into the same thing you see in the forums here, my black belt is more legitimate than yours I am better than you, etc., etc. There is much more money in discrediting you and getting you to enroll at a lower rank. Well yes you can get a copy of your discharge and diploma so no there really is no excuse for that.

Some people practice for all sorts of reasons, don’t they? – money; power, ego, notoriety, victory in competitions, pulling women, wanting folk to think you’re a black-belt-killer-badass. Other people practice just for the sake of practicing, and don’t give a rat’s ass about belts and certificates. Like White Shark, I can’t figure out where you’re at. You want a rank, but you don’t want to do what you have to do to get the rank, because you don’t believe in all that kinda trad stuff. Why do you want the rank, then?

Also, you could perfectly easily join some kind of kickboxing association and get ranked without ever having to do a pattern/form/kata. If rank matters to you, why not do that?

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 6/28/2011 4:22pm

Your problems with patterns, re-ranking, kata, ego, purpose of kata, and self defense have nothing to do with a guy selling certs with deceased instructors and their signatures.

**MasterYourself** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 7:31am

Well to address the questions, it is something I earned so I have already "Done what you have to do" I just lost the paper and again patterns vary from one place to another while techniques remain the same in Taekwondo, no matter where you are at. But hey you guys don't know me and even if you did may still find my lowly opinions inferior to yours, so I'll let someone we all know comment on these things, someone who is far more qualified than I.

"All fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns."

"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."

"Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system."

These are all quotes from Bruce Lee.

Great ideal on the Kickboxing though.

To be clear I was not nor will I defend the person you where talking about I was merely saying that just because he not legit does not mean people do not use it for what they feel is a legitimate reason and with honest intentions, so I would stop short of just saying they are all trash on site, particularly considering that they will look just like the ones legitimate people have who have never had it replaced.

Anyway it all comes down to investigation and although I can prove myself, there are those that will not give you that oppertunity and those that will dismiss you regardless.

Point is these are things one lists in their martial arts bio and more often than not now days if you do not have a certificate you are branded a lier and that to me is probably the only thing that could ever hurt me, I take the truth very seriously and do not want to have anything to do with those that do not.

"It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it."

"A good conscience is a continual Christmas."

"Honesty is the best policy."

All quotes by Benjamin Franklin.

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Your problems with patterns, re-ranking, kata, ego, purpose of kata, and self defense have nothing to do with a guy selling certs with deceased instructors and their signatures.

Not following you man, this thread is about finding the correct answer for an old certificate lost or damaged beyond recognition.

I will also confess that I have had offers from sources I consider to be illegitimate and thus declined, because that would be no better than me signing it myself. Actually worse since I can promote myself to a lower rank than I am. LOL!

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 8:09am

No, this was about replacing a cert with one from an with alleged forgery mill. You started adding caveats to try and show how the certs could be okay. Then, when offered a suggestion you personalized the story, injected yourself into the argument, and shot down the suggestion with "OMG TEH PATTERNS." I addressed what you inserted into the argument.

If you lost your cert IMO tough. Yes, it sucks but going to an alleged forger makes you disingenuous at the least and criminally liable at the worst depending on the circumstances..

You might be surprised of how difficult that is, most will simply not do it, others will not do it without you learning all of their patterns, I no longer have interest in patterns and have abandoned that practice some time ago. Opinions may vary, but patterns are just that and serve little value in self-defense practicing each move to me is a better way to go, I feel it is easier to flow then because your not practicing combinations that most likely will not fit into the fight as a whole and instead can flow to what is available, I do not feel that rank should be so dependent on patterns particularly since they vary. Basicly you run into the same thing you see in the forums here, my black belt is more legitimate than yours I am better than you, etc., etc. There is much more money in discrediting you and getting you to enroll at a lower rank. Well yes you can get a copy of your discharge and diploma so no there really is no excuse for that.

If you don't follow reread your own post.This was in response to my suggestion of getting re-ranked. There is no other reason to bring this up.

**ermghoti** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 8:12am

Originally Posted by MasterYourself

Well to address the questions, it is something I earned so I have already "Done what you have to do" I just lost the paper and again patterns vary from one place to another while techniques remain the same in Taekwondo, no matter where you are at. But hey you guys don't know me and even if you did may still find my lowly opinions inferior to yours, so I'll let someone we all know comment on these things, someone who is far more qualified than I.

"All fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns."

"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."

"Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system."

These are all quotes from Bruce Lee.

Great ideal on the Kickboxing though.

To be clear I was not nor will I defend the person you where talking about I was merely saying that just because he not legit does not mean people do not use it for what they feel is a legitimate reason and with honest intentions, so I would stop short of just saying they are all trash on site, particularly considering that they will look just like the ones legitimate people have who have never had it replaced.

Anyway it all comes down to investigation and although I can prove myself, there are those that will not give you that oppertunity and those that will dismiss you regardless.

Point is these are things one lists in their martial arts bio and more often than not now days if you do not have a certificate you are branded a lier and that to me is probably the only thing that could ever hurt me, I take the truth very seriously and do not want to have anything to do with those that do not.

"It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it."

"A good conscience is a continual Christmas."

"Honesty is the best policy."

All quotes by Benjamin Franklin.

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Your problems with patterns, re-ranking, kata, ego, purpose of kata, and self defense have nothing to do with a guy selling certs with deceased instructors and their signatures.

Not following you man, this thread is about finding the correct answer for an old certificate lost or damaged beyond recognition.

I will also confess that I have had offers from sources I consider to be illegitimate and thus declined, because that would be no better than me signing it myself. Actually worse since I can promote myself to a lower rank than I am. LOL!

"You are a dipshit."

A quote by Ermghoti.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 8:21am

Oh and BTW 2/3 is bad when it is a negative situation.

Oh sorry I forgot quotes:

Originally Posted by MasterYourself

Well yes you can get a copy of your discharge and diploma so no there really is no excuse for that.

He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas.
--Ben Franklin

**MasterYourself** · Posted On: 7/04/2011 6:05am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

No, this was about replacing a cert with one from an with alleged forgery mill. You started adding caveats to try and show how the certs could be okay. Then, when offered a suggestion you personalized the story, injected yourself into the argument, and shot down the suggestion with "OMG TEH PATTERNS." I addressed what you inserted into the argument.

If you lost your cert IMO tough. Yes, it sucks but going to an alleged forger makes you disingenuous at the least and criminally liable at the worst depending on the circumstances..

If you don't follow reread your own post.This was in response to my suggestion of getting re-ranked. There is no other reason to bring this up.

No, that was the other thread and you split this over to a new thread ( please check the title ) because I asked a legitimate question to the OP.

It was not merely lost it was destroyed trough no fault of my own.

I shot down the suggestion with reasonable and sensable adult conversation not childish dribble.

Originally Posted by ermghoti

"You are a dipshit."

A quote by Ermghoti.

Confessions will get you nowhere with me, but I appreciate you being honest with both yourself and the rest of us.

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Oh and BTW 2/3 is bad when it is a negative situation.

I concur, but these questions needed to be asked and settled, not just for me but for many others. Just imagine how many people probably lost their certificate in the tornados this year, it's hard when you went to a small independant school and lose your certificate in a natural disaster and although I still have relevant skills many may not, yet it is still something they earned and have a right to hang on their wall, so again it needed to be asked. Look at it this way, is a 69 year old Veteran still a Veteran, by some of the views expressed here, the answer is no, after it is unlikely that they are fit enough to join now and in the past during times of war the fitness requirements were far below the requirements of today. Luckly if they lost their discharge they can most likely get it replaced from a legitimate source, but that is not the point, the point is that according to some here he is no longer a Vetarn anyway since he can not meet the testing standards of today. ;)

You see I do not do everything for my own selfish gain and I am quite good at playing devil's advocate, seeing boths sides of the story is important because there are always two sides.

I think we have found one possible solution and that being Kick Boxing.

Also, I can see that Taekwondo is all about money and in fact the techniques in themselves are worthless and only patterns and one-steps have any value in the art, I came to this conclusion because nobody as debated it and as I said, patterns vary from one school to the next however the techniques are the same.