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  1. proteinshakez is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2011 9:27pm


     Style: Shotokan, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I look forward to seeing your appearance on a late night Dave re-run of 'America's dumbest criminals'.
    And i look forward to seeing yours when i blow your head off when you morons finally **** up one time too many and give us a real life 28 Days Later experience :)

    I'll be the big dude high kicking zombies heads off and shooting them without mercy.
  2. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2011 2:25pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by proteinshakez View Post
    And i look forward to seeing yours when i blow your head off when you morons finally **** up one time too many and give us a real life 28 Days Later experience :)

    I'll be the big dude high kicking zombies heads off and shooting them without mercy.
    A warning to everyone, but especially you: Calm it down or I will start culling posts.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  3. pontoon is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2011 10:28pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by proteinshakez View Post
    And i look forward to seeing yours when i blow your head off when you morons finally **** up one time too many and give us a real life 28 Days Later experience :)

    I'll be the big dude high kicking zombies heads off and shooting them without mercy.
    So your response to the concept of the state holding a monopoly of force in a liberal democracy is to threaten to violently murder someone in another country when they theoretically turn into a fictional entity from a film?

    Sounds pretty rational to me.
  4. MasterYourself is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2011 6:58am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by No.1_Son View Post
    This thread is starting to scare me.

    When you are taking a gun off someone, would your other hand normally be on your own piece? It seems to me like that would be the smart way to do it, ignorant as I am of these things.

    Anyways, if the decision just says that it's legal for cops to take guns during traffic stops if they choose, I don't have a problem with that, and I don't know why any sensible person would.
    Perhaps you should try reading more of the thread ( no disrespect meant BTW ), it has been spelled out, it is not really needed for someone legally carrying and it is unsafe, the officer is asking you to hand him a loaded gun, more often than not with one in the chamber, that can go wrong in so many ways it is not even funny and in my case when I pull said loaded weapon out it will be pointed right at him and takes no more than me pulling the trigger on a Glock, Just leave it and write the ticket, no need in risking lives over an invalid traffic ticket. Also consider this regardless, if some cop wants to go rough and get away with killing people it will be pretty hard for forensics to prove you did not try to shoot the officer in the process since you will be handling the weaon when you die. Use you head for something other than growing hair and hanging hats on folks, I get to type less that way.
    Last edited by MasterYourself; 7/03/2011 7:03am at .
  5. Sgt. Rock is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2011 2:55pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The temporary securing of a driver's firearms during a traffic stop is ultimately going to be up to the Officer's discretion, and that decision will be based on a large number of variables, some known and unknown. Laws in either direction are generally going to be disregarded in actual field conditions for the purposes of Officer safety. That said...

    I will say that as a general rule, unless I'm hinked up on a traffic stop for some reason, I'm not going to remove and secure someone's legally carried firearm. In the event I need to secure it, I would *never* ask them to draw it from a holster or retrieve it from a compartment for me. That is just a bad idea on so many levels, most insignificantly the legal questions it would raise in the even I end up shooting someone. "I saw the Officer tell the man to hand him the pistol and as he was trying to, HE SHOT THAT POOR MAN!"

    If roles were reversed and an Officer asked me to do that, I would politely decline and explain that I am not comfortable drawing or handling a loaded firearm in his presence. I would keep my hands visible, tell him exactly where the pistol was, and ask him how he would like me to proceed.

    If I feel the need to secure a weapon that is in the car itself and not on the person of the driver or occupants, I will remove the individuals from the car in the safest manner possible, conduct pat-frisk(s), handcuff if necessary, and secure the subjects safely in my patrol car BEFORE retrieving the item in question.

    When removing holstered weapons from subjects, the first thing I do is discreetly announce to my backup (hopefully onscene) that there is a firearm present, apply handcuffs, and then draw the weapon. I don't like the idea of trying to maintain control of a subjects unsecured hands while he struggles to get his pistol out should it turn out to be a bad day. That's not a good time. If he gets froggy as I'm applying cuffs and it looks like he'll be able to get his hands on his firearm despite my efforts, I can disengage and draw my own as a last resort.
  6. C0WB0Y is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2011 4:35pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TRUE STORY:

    Several years back my brother and his buddy were legally carrying in State College, PA. Some rowdy guys bumped up against my brother on the sidewalk and then tried to start a fight over it. My brother IS NOT a fighter. (He doesn't have to be, I'm his big bro.) Anyway, he calmly tells the guy to leave him alone. He doesn't and continues to antagonize my little brother. So my brother verbally warns him he is carrying a firearm (one of my extra .45 1911s) and will defend himself if attacked. The guy calls him a liar and shoves him. At this point, my brother lifts up his shirt to display the butt of the pistol without drawing the gun. The guy STILL calls him a liar and says he isn't afraid of a pellet gun. To which my brother draws the gun, re-racks the slide, catches the ejected live round and hands it to his aggressor and tells him to piss off one last time.

    Maaaybe he shouldn't of done that (despite being kind of a BAMF move.) Anyway my brother and his buddy get a few blocks down the road when a swarm of police cruisers stop them and place them in handcuffs. My brother's 1911 is taken and he is questioned about what went down.

    While my brother is being interrogated, his buddy, who is also in cuffs, informs the police that he also is carrying an .40 H&K USP Compact. The cops freak the **** out that he wasn't searched and remove the firearm. The fiddle-**** with it for a few minutes and CANNOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO UNLOAD THE FIREARM. So they uncuff my brother's friend, ask him to unload it, then place him back in cuffs while they sort the whole mess out.

    In the end, there were no charges filed and everyone went home with their firearms. But the ridiculousness that between the five or so cops there, not ONE of them knew how to operate an H&K to unload it speaks volumes as to why I'd be very hesitant, if not altogether non-compliant with handing my firearm to anyone, ESPECIALLY a cop.
  7. Sgt. Rock is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2011 5:08pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by C0WB0Y View Post
    ...But the ridiculousness that between the five or so cops there, not ONE of them knew how to operate an H&K to unload it speaks volumes as to why I'd be very hesitant, if not altogether non-compliant with handing my firearm to anyone, ESPECIALLY a cop.
    Are you suggesting that in your example the safer course of action would have been to refuse to relinquish either firearm because the Officers were likely to be unfamiliar with their operation?
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2011 5:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock View Post
    Are you suggesting that in your example the safer course of action would have been to refuse to relinquish either firearm because the Officers were likely to be unfamiliar with their operation?
    I'm glad an American policemen is concerned and surprised by this because so far we've had two intelligent and reasonable people - Gezere and Cowboy imply they would actively consider not surrendering their weapon to a police officer if the police officer required it.

    There's literally no way out for the private citizen you either surrender the weapon or... what? Start a firefight with the police? Seriously, what is your alternative?
  9. C0WB0Y is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2011 5:16pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, I'm using this as yet another example of why I don't trust anyone else with my firearm. Yes, the cops SHOULD HAVE searched him. Yes, the cops SHOULD HAVE known how to unload the gun. The cops SHOULD NOT have returned a loaded gun to a suspect and asked him to unload it due to their incompetence. If they really were all that baffled by the weapon's safety features, they simply could have just let it lie in cruiser. I've yet to read a story of a gun jumping up and killing a cop all by itself.

    Far too many people believe that just because someone is issued a badge that automatically makes them an expert in firearms and hand-to-hand combat. The VAST majority of cops I know are bumbling idiots when it comes to any type of self-defense. The slim minority take defensive tactics VERY SERIOUSLY (as they should) and are some of the most well-versed individuals I know.
  10. Sgt. Rock is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2011 5:25pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    I'm glad an American policemen is concerned and surprised by this because so far we've had two intelligent and reasonable people - Gezere and Cowboy imply they would actively consider not surrendering their weapon to a police officer if the police officer required it.

    There's literally no way out for the private citizen you either surrender the weapon or... what? Start a firefight with the police? Seriously, what is your alternative?
    That's pretty much it, yeah.

    It's a pretty bad idea to get severely lumped up and/or shot to hell from two or more angles because you are concerned about a *possible* negligent discharge from Officer Friendly. If you're going to risk your life doing something that risky, at least do it for a good reason.

    I'd hate to have to shoot one of the good guys because he made a poor decision.
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