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  1. Snake Plissken is offline
    Snake Plissken's Avatar

    When I Get Back

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2011 10:41am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The intent of the law is pure:

    making those charged with the caretaking of the human animal more at ease, knowing any firearm will be, temporarily, in the officer's complete control

    However, like with most laws, it is predicated upon the assumption that criminals will act in the same manner as the average citizen and inform the officer they possess said firearm.

    And this is also presupposing a criminal would possess a legally obtained, licensed firearm.
  2. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2011 11:12am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what? All your other rights are momentarly restricted during a traffic stop. All of the sudden now you wake up? Didn't think such things applied to you before because you were law abiding/here legally/white? Hypocrite.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  3. toyamabarnard is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2011 12:24pm


     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dougguod View Post
    Why? Who's going to come along and victimize you with a cop present?
    I'm not worried about being victimized, I just think it's a bad idea to remove a loaded firearm from my hip, guns don't go off in their holster. They have the authority to remove it, but if someone hands you a license it's just better gun safety not to handle the firearm unless you have to.
  4. No.1_Son is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2011 4:40pm


     Style: BJJ & MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by toyamabarnard View Post
    I just think it's a bad idea to remove a loaded firearm from my hip
    Put yourself in the mindset of a police officer for a fraction of a second. Now, stop posting stuff on the internet that makes it appear your brain melted and dripped it's way out your skull via your ears.
  5. toyamabarnard is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2011 7:22pm


     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by No.1_Son View Post
    Put yourself in the mindset of a police officer for a fraction of a second. Now, stop posting stuff on the internet that makes it appear your brain melted and dripped it's way out your skull via your ears.
    First:
    Quote Originally Posted by toyamabarnard
    I have mixed feelings on this. I understand the need for officer safety, but (and it has never happened to me) I would be pretty damn nervous if an officer wanted to remove my loaded pistol from my person. Everyone is much safer if they stay secured with no one handling them. Laying loose in the vehicle somewhere though... Personally I'd have done the same thing if I was the officer making the stop.
    Pay attention to the conversation before you talk smack.

    I put myslef in the mindset of a police officer for 7 years..... while I was one.... and kept it through my 2 years running the jail, and even my year as a dispatcher.... So my opinions about traffic stops don't come from watching the news or Miami Vice.

    I've personally removed firearms from people and vehicles FOR OFFICER SAFETY, but I never stopped someone, had them hand me a pistol license / CCW and tell me they were carrying and take their gun off their person.

    So again, I respect officer safety (more than most people if I didn't make that clear by now) and would certainly comply if an officer chose to remove my firearm, but increased handling of firearms directly correlates to increased discharge and I'd rather not get shot with my own gun.
  6. No.1_Son is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2011 9:32pm


     Style: BJJ & MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not sure I buy into your reasoning. Obligatory correlation is not causation. I can't image that professionals trained in gun safety and with tons of range hours pose any kind of credible threat to accidentally shoot someone with their own gun while the officer is removing it. It does sound like a good cover story for a dirty cop though.

    Seriously though, how many times has this scenario actually happened?
  7. MasterYourself is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 5:21am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You have my vote for Sheriff toyamabarnard I believe that in the case of a lawful carry it is nothing short of dangerous to everyone and completely stupid to disarm them for a traffic stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by No.1_Son View Post
    I'm not sure I buy into your reasoning. Obligatory correlation is not causation. I can't image that professionals trained in gun safety and with tons of range hours pose any kind of credible threat to accidentally shoot someone with their own gun while the officer is removing it. It does sound like a good cover story for a dirty cop though.

    Seriously though, how many times has this scenario actually happened?
    Good question, how many times has an officer shot a permit holder claiming they drew on them, that will probably give you your answer. I would have to get out to disarm, it is the only safe way because when I am in the drivers seat the weapon is pointed right at them in it's holster with a round in the chamber ( Glock 22 ), getting out and removing the holster is the safest method.

    Here is one case:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08083/867414-53.stm

    And another:

    http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/1057...costco-nv.html
    Last edited by MasterYourself; 6/28/2011 5:38am at .
  8. toyamabarnard is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 7:05am


     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    #
    Edit to add: The video is a DEA agent, with all the federal money available for training. And yes, it went in to his foot.

    People would be surprised to find out the reality of some of our law enforcement training. Don't forget, unless the officer goes on his own, firearms training requires paying overtime or taking officers off the road when you're probably already short units on the shift.

    As a Second Amendment advocate one of the things I ask regularly is "Do I become more or less of a threat to public safety if I change my shirt?". Putting on a badge doesn't make you right, it just gives you a high stress job with shitty hours and a pay check that isn't half what it should be.

    We could go in to the science of traffic stops and add in tired, hung over, having a crappy day or a billion other human factors that effect officers, but suffice to say that it's at best an akward angle to remove a pistol from another person and if you can reach their gun they can probably reach yours. Even if it's a very small chance that gun would go off it's a lot higher than the chance it will if it's left sitting where it is.
  9. MasterYourself is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 7:12am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had to show a game warden how to lock a saturday night special open once, he was scaring the hell out of me with it.
  10. No.1_Son is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 7:19pm


     Style: BJJ & MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread is starting to scare me.

    When you are taking a gun off someone, would your other hand normally be on your own piece? It seems to me like that would be the smart way to do it, ignorant as I am of these things.

    Anyways, if the decision just says that it's legal for cops to take guns during traffic stops if they choose, I don't have a problem with that, and I don't know why any sensible person would.
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