how do kneebar?

**Zerstörer90** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 1:16pm

I used the search function for this already and I couldn't find anything pertinent to this issue directly. Sorry if this has been discussed, I couldn't find it.

I've been pulling off a lot of kneebars from half guard in my BJJ class lately against the lower belts, but a few guys keep slipping out. I was wondering if any of you guys had some helpful tips on locking down the hips and keeping them from slipping out or rotating themselves out of it.

My set ups seem to be getting me in position, but keeping it controlled while i extend the leg has proven difficult with some of the more experience/flexible guys at my gym.

I'm looking for that slow, controlled feeling I get when I can lockdown the shoulder for a jujigatame/armbar. Any advice would be appreciated.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 1:23pm

Knee barring lower belts is dumb. Most of them probably have no idea what you are doing. If this is in Gi you're an ass.

**Zerstörer90** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 1:32pm

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

Knee barring lower belts is dumb. Most of them probably have no idea what you are doing. If this is in Gi you're an ass.

--thanks for the informative reply

My instructor showed me how to do it, and has commended me multiple times for pulling it off in rolling. I usually don't have the option against the really new people because they quite often have no idea what I'm doing anyway. I usually resort to it against the guys that can stop me from passing their half guard. And most of the time I've pulled it off it's against blue belts who aren't defending it from half guard.

Also, I asked thoroughly about leg locks and what I was allowed to do when I started here. The instructor had no problems with kneebars and straight ankle locks for someone at my level, he told me to be wary of heel hooks and twisty-like leg locks because they have a high injury probability.

Sorry for the dumb question, but how am I an ass for using a kneebar in gi? It's not like I'm spazzing and ruining peoples knees. It's allowed in the rules and I get tired of dealing with people stalling and retaining full guard when I managed to finally pass them into half guard.

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 2:26pm

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

Knee barring lower belts is dumb. Most of them probably have no idea what you are doing. If this is in Gi you're an ass.

Actually, the whole "it's an asshole move" appears to be only at certain BJJ clubs and mainly located on the southeast coast of the US.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 2:26pm

As a leg lock specialist I'm hesitant to say anything. I teach my guys early how to do a leg lock but I don't condone doing it on newbies. I also have a problem with your instructor being okay with it too. I go through a whole speech when it comes to a kneebar which usually is summarized into "If you have to tap because of pain in a kneebar they've already done damage."

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 2:39pm

Originally Posted by Omega Supreme

As a leg lock specialist I'm hesitant to say anything. I teach my guys early how to do a leg lock but I don't condone doing it on newbies. I also have a problem with your instructor being okay with it too. I go through a whole speech when it comes to a kneebar which usually is summarized into "If you have to tap because of pain in a kneebar they've already done damage."

I don't think he's talking about newbies, but your well placed caution with regard to poor instruction and newbies is commendable.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 2:43pm

Originally Posted by Tom Kagan

I don't think he's talking about newbies, but your well placed caution with regard to newbies is commendable.

I just want to be sure, this is not the case. In my gym all leg lock rolling has to be pre approved by me.

**Zerstörer90** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 2:55pm

Originally Posted by Omega Supreme

I just want to be sure, this is not the case. In my gym all leg lock rolling has to be pre approved by me.

I've been making it a point not to use leglocks against newer people, the "lower belts" i'm talking about are the fresh blue belts and 3-4 stripe white belts that generally kick my ass. I've had some luck with pulling them off here and there, but I'm very controlled and slow when I do it, like I am with everything, so as not to injure myself or anyone else, and so I can actually learn the technique. The problem I'm running into is that, in my slow and controlled movements, they have a lot of time to figure out and feel a way to get out of it.

When I'm rolling with someone who is a newbie I generally just work on my fundamentals and make it interesting for them, rather than wtfpwning them with a submission they've never seen. I know that on my first few rolls I was lost in the dark with all of this stuff so I'm not about to go just crushing people.

And my instructor used almost those exact words describing leglocks and the danger of injury with them, but because I've demonstrated a degree of control he seems to be alright with me using them. I do know I'm not the best grappler, and I do know I'm not supposed to get all macho when some new guys show up. I'm just asking a technical question.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 3:06pm

Originally Posted by Kokikai90

I've been making it a point not to use leglocks against newer people, the "lower belts" i'm talking about are the fresh blue belts and 3-4 stripe white belts that generally kick my ass. I've had some luck with pulling them off here and there, but I'm very controlled and slow when I do it, like I am with everything, so as not to injure myself or anyone else, and so I can actually learn the technique. The problem I'm running into is that, in my slow and controlled movements, they have a lot of time to figure out and feel a way to get out of it.

When I'm rolling with someone who is a newbie I generally just work on my fundamentals and make it interesting for them, rather than wtfpwning them with a submission they've never seen. I know that on my first few rolls I was lost in the dark with all of this stuff so I'm not about to go just crushing people.

And my instructor used almost those exact words describing leglocks and the danger of injury with them, but because I've demonstrated a degree of control he seems to be alright with me using them. I do know I'm not the best grappler, and I do know I'm not supposed to get all macho when some new guys show up. I'm just asking a technical question.

Okay, well if we can use the standard armbar leverage as a base I can approach it from there.

First, are you vicing the knees?

Second, are you noting who's escaping?

Third, which half guard approach are you using?

I'll elaborate from there and get into hand, arm, and leg placement.

**Zerstörer90** · Posted On: 6/22/2011 3:11pm

Originally Posted by Omega Supreme

Okay, well if we can use the standard armbar leverage as a base I can approach it from there.

First, are you vicing the knees?

Second, are you noting who's escaping?

Third, which half guard approach are you using?

I'll elaborate from there and get into hand, arm, and leg placement.

Yes I am vicing the knees. I usually try to get as close to the hip joint as I can.

Yes, I've noticed that very flexible guys who have shorter legs are able to get out the easiest. They manage to get their hip out of my vice and from there it's just downhill.

I'm using the knee-over kneebar. Usually I butterfly the knee that is going over on their hip and leave the leg caught in half guard in between their legs so it's easier to lock down the hip when I'm in position.