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  1. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 6:02pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    When talent is scattered all over the place, it makes it harder than neccessary to set up fights.
    I'm going to disagree with you on this. The only thing preventing a fight from happening in boxing is two fighters coming to an agreement. In MMA, fighters sign exclusivity agreements with certain organizations. The best fights aren't guaranteed to happen with MMA either.

    With boxing, granted you have fights that don't happen. If two boxers want a fight bad enough, it will happen.

    The only thing preventing Pacquiao vs Mayweather from happening is Mayweather's refusal. I doubt this would change if there was only one sanctioning body in boxing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    Inflation of championships makes them redundant, and in practice most of them mean as much as toys you'd get with your happy meal.
    I don't disagree with you here, but multiple belts still doesn't prevent great fights from happening. The Gatti vs. Ward trilogy -- which IMO was the best trilogy boxing's seen since Ali vs. Frazier -- was fought with no belts on the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    And the product has suffered? Please. They had a few dud fights, but this can happen in all sports.
    As stated, the last event that caught my attention was UFC 124.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    So please, HOW has MMA suffered from Zuffa buying out Strikeforce?
    So long as Strikeforce continues to have that contract with Showtime, Strikeforce won't suffer. When it does run out, however, I suspect it will go the way of PrideFC. If that happens, yet another promotion will spring up -- just like it did in Japan. This promotion will have a more compelling product than UFC -- until UFC buys out this promotion too.

    Of course, this is all speculation -- but it's one built on a pattern of predictability.

    Kudos to UFC, though, for providing health insurance for their fighters.
  2. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 6:09pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Referring to a world championship as a trinket is a cowardly way of dancing around the fact that boxing has a completely broken method of recognizing it's top fighters.
    Because Fedor has never won a UFC belt, does that mean MMA has a completely broken method of recognizing its top fighters? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Top talent and killer marketing? Sounds like a recipe for success to me.
    I said "on top of their talent". I did not say they have "top talent".
  3. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 6:17pm

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    Atomicpoet - this conversation would be much simpler if you'd be more truthful.

    Admit it, you're a boxing purist. You hate MMA. Nothing would make you happier than to see the UFC and every other MMA organization go down the toilet. You yearn for the heyday of boxing when people gave a **** about who was fighting for the heavyweight title next. You had all your fingers and toes crossed hoping like a ************ that James Toney would knock Randy Couture's head into the cheap seats and give all those MMA punks what they had coming.

    Just say it and quit dancing.
  4. Mannetosen is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 6:19pm


     Style: MMA

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    I'm going to disagree with you on this. The only thing preventing a fight from happening in boxing is two fighters coming to an agreement. In MMA, fighters sign exclusivity agreements with certain organizations. The best fights aren't
    guaranteed to happen with MMA either.
    I never said otherwise. All I said is that they have to jump over a bunch of obstacles to get it.

    Considering that Zuffa inevitably will have near-monopoly on top talent soon enough (they pretty much do already) exclusivity agreements are a non-problem.

    With boxing, granted you have fights that don't happen. If two boxers want a fight bad enough, it will happen.
    See above.

    The only thing preventing Pacquiao vs Mayweather from happening is Mayweather's refusal. I doubt this would change if there was only one sanctioning body in boxing.
    Agreed. Mayweather doesn't want that fight.

    I don't disagree with you here, but multiple belts still doesn't prevent great fights from happening. The Gatti vs. Ward trilogy -- which IMO was the best trilogy boxing's seen since Ali vs. Frazier -- was fought with no belts on the line.
    It doesn't, but it makes championships redundant, which goes against the entire purpose of them.

    As stated, the last event that caught my attention was UFC 124.
    Was this the last event you watched? This was largely a weak card, carried by the coaches' bout (GSP\Koscheck). That fight wasn't exactly enthralling because GSP was better than Josh at pretty much everything, but it was interesting in its own way because MMA fighters can't jab for ****.

    UFC 125 had one of the most enthralling and dramatic main events in MMA history, in my opinion.

    126 had Anderson Silva front kick KO Vitor, and Jon Jones earning a title shot.

    127 had BJ Penn fight Jon Fitch, which I at least found to be a fun fight.

    128 had Jim Miller mauling a really tough guy, Faber\Wineland having a surprisingly competitive fight and Jon Jones demolishing Shogun.

    129 had a fucking crane kick and Aldo\Hominick, which was super fun.

    130 was pretty uneventful for me except for Miguel Torres and his hyperactive guard.

    131 had a few good fights in Munoz\Maia and Einemo\Herman, a massive beatdown of Shane Carwin that almost turned around completely with a last second guillotine, and Sam Stout actually finishing someone.

    Other than that Diaz\Daley springs to mind as a fight after the buyout.

    If GSP\Koscheck was the last event you watched you've honestly missed out on a ton of great fights.

    So long as Strikeforce continues to have that contract with Showtime, Strikeforce won't suffer. When it does run out, however, I suspect it will go the way of PrideFC. If that happens, yet another promotion will spring up -- just like it did in Japan. This promotion will have a more compelling product than UFC -- until UFC buys out this promotion too.
    How was Strikeforce's product at any point more compelling than the UFC's? Mostly they booked hilarious squash matches and got exciting finishes that way.

    Of course, this is all speculation -- but it's one built on a pattern of predictability.
    Not really.

    Kudos to UFC, though, for providing health insurance for their fighters.
    :)
  5. SilverGlove is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 6:38pm

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     Style: boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    just to chime in, i think the only thing boxing has over the UFC is how much the top fighters get paid, wich i think its what ruined boxing in the first place, im not against fighters earning a good living but some boxers to take it to extemes on the flip side a lot of UFC fighters do get short changed for the level they compete in
    so maybe something in betwen should be the norm?
  6. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 6:48pm


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Admit it, you're a boxing purist. You hate MMA.
    Except, I don't. A week and a half ago, Jesse Bongfeldt came to my gym. He's a great guy -- salt of the earth. He even gave me tips.

    I remember watching the early UFC matches. Royce Gracie vs. Dan Severn will always be a classic in my mind.

    Thing is, I feel the style match-ups haven't been up to par lately. I don't feel like I'm watching anything historic. There hasn't been a singular moment where I've said, "Wow! This is a fight I'll be telling my grandchildren about!"

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    You yearn for the heyday of boxing when people gave a **** about who was fighting for the heavyweight title next.
    That's funny because I think the heavyweight division is one of the more underwhelming weight classes. Klitschko vs. Haye is the exception not the rule. After this fight, I guarantee there will be more yawners.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    You had all your fingers and toes crossed hoping like a ************ that James Toney would knock Randy Couture's head into the cheap seats and give all those MMA punks what they had coming.
    **** that. James Toney was an over-the-hill fighter who talked some smack. I was positively thrilled when Randy Couture gave him his comeuppance. Mind you, it made for a horrible MMA fight -- but that goes back to what I've been saying previously: UFC fights aren't on the same level as they used to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    That fight wasn't exactly enthralling because GSP was better than Josh at pretty much everything, but it was interesting in its own way because MMA fighters can't jab for ****.
    That fight solidified to me just how complete a fighter GSP really is. It made me want to see him do bigger and better things. To me, the Shields match was a big letdown. GSP clearly deserved something better than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    126 had Anderson Silva front kick KO Vitor
    I forgot about this. It was beautiful. But at this point, Anderson Silva is in a class by himself. He too deserves better match-ups. Maybe he's so talented that isn't possible?
  7. Mannetosen is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 6:50pm


     Style: MMA

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    Anderson consistently fights the best guys in his division. He's just stuck in a fairly limited division and eclipses all of them.
  8. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 7:22pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    UFC fights aren't on the same level as they used to be.
    Please tell us what era in the UFC provided the standard you're comparing today's fights to. Because in my mind, the fighters are better than they've ever been and the matchups are as exciting as they've ever been. What is it you want to see that you're not seeing?
  9. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 7:42pm

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Good cardio makes for a better MMA fighter too, but that doesn't mean I want to go watch a marathon.
    This is fucking golden. I don't always agree with devil, but he has been making a lot of sense lately.
  10. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 7:49pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    This is fucking golden. I don't always agree with devil, but he has been making a lot of sense lately.
    I'm glad to see you and It Is Fake have seen the light.
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