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  1. Holy Moment is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 3:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MMA enhanced my appreciation of the other sports, not diminished it.
    This was true for me too. When I started watching MMA, I actually stopped watching boxing for a few years. But now I can appreciate pretty much any fighting sport.

    If MMA is on any kind of plateau, then it's been there before. Some approach to fighting comes along and seems totally dominant until other fighters figure it out and add it to the mix. That's one fundamental aspect of the ruleset that makes it interesting.
    It's funny. I read a comment somewhere that said the present day UFC is "the era of the wrestler." That's weird, because I thought the UFC already a had a wrestling era. That was around the time Mark Coleman was champion and ended when he lost to Maurice Smith.
  2. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 3:41pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    I know Saul Alvarez is a breakout star, and will sell tickets for the next 10 years. I have no idea who in the UFC will do the same as far as prospects are concerned.



    I never said UFC doesn't promote their biggest stars -- I said they promote their brand over their fighters. The UFC's weakness isn't that they don't promote their stars, it's that they don't promote their prospects so that they can become stars. Aldo and Jones don't sell tickets.



    You must be watching totally different UFC events than me. Since December, what has been a single breakout card? Hell, even St-Pierre vs. Shields put me to sleep.
    No, you don't KNOW Alvarez will sell tickets for the next 10 years. You're talking out your ass. He could tank tomorrow.

    You're making me chuckle with all your "The UFC's problem is this" and "The UFC's weakness is that" talk. Do you not see how hilarious this is given the complete fucking shellacking the UFC has given their competitors (MMA competitors and boxing competitors) in the marketplace for the last several years? I'm sure The UFC is thankful for your concern, but it appears to be unwarranted.

    Sometimes I wonder if any famous people post here on Bullshido. Now I know the answer is yes. Atomicpoet is Bob Arum.
  3. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 4:10pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    No, you don't KNOW Alvarez will sell tickets for the next 10 years. You're talking out your ass. He could tank tomorrow.
    I won't lie. I think Alvarez is a superlatively gifted kid with untapped potential. In fact, I'm absolutely willing to wager that within the next two years, he'll be the #1 ranked Jr. Middleweight according to both The Ring and BoxRec.com. Yes, I'm serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    You're making me chuckle with all your "The UFC's problem is this" and "The UFC's weakness is that" talk. Do you not see how hilarious this is given the complete fucking shellacking the UFC has given their competitors (MMA competitors and boxing competitors) in the marketplace for the last several years? I'm sure The UFC is thankful for your concern, but it appears to be unwarranted.
    Call it a sneaking suspicion, but I think after Strikeforce's contract with Showtime runs out, it will be shut down. It won't be because the UFC "shellacked" them.
  4. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 4:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    I won't lie. I think Alvarez is a superlatively gifted kid with untapped potential. In fact, I'm absolutely willing to wager that within the next two years, he'll be the #1 ranked Jr. Middleweight according to both The Ring and BoxRec.com. Yes, I'm serious.



    Call it a sneaking suspicion, but I think after Strikeforce's contract with Showtime runs out, it will be shut down. It won't be because the UFC "shellacked" them.
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    If you like him so much, why don't you marry him?

    Of course Strikeforce will be shut down. Strikeforce was purchased to acquire talent and crush a competitive threat. Plus, Strikeforce has some serious quantities of suck in their show production. What's your point?
  5. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 4:31pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Of course Strikeforce will be shut down. Strikeforce was purchased to acquire talent and crush a competitive threat. Plus, Strikeforce has some serious quantities of suck in their show production. What's your point?
    You've made my point for me. UFC isn't "winning" because they have a superior product; it's because they're crushing their competitive threats. Numerous people in this thread state they thought PrideFC was much better than UFC. I happen to agree.

    If the UFC succeeds at consolidating the sport in one organization, I don't think this will bode very well for MMA. I'm not the only one who thinks so either.
  6. Mannetosen is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 4:46pm


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    But the alphabet soup boxing has degenerated into is a healthy business model?

    Honestly, MMA is in a better state right now than it was before Zuffa bought Strikeforce. If you choose to look away from that, then by all means. Don't be shocked when you fail to form a convincing argument, though.
  7. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 4:48pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    You've made my point for me. UFC isn't "winning" because they have a superior product; it's because they're crushing their competitive threats. Numerous people in this thread state they thought PrideFC was much better than UFC. I happen to agree.

    If the UFC succeeds at consolidating the sport in one organization, I don't think this will bode very well for MMA. I'm not the only one who thinks so either.
    Okay, little Jimmy. Let me explain to you how business works in the grown up world. Companies don't get to the point where they can go out and buy other well established companies unless they have LOTS of money. Well established means they did a good job. They earn the money to do this by giving their customers a superior product. Superior means real good.

    Now follow me, little Jimmy....sometimes when you get real good at what you do, other companies try to do the same thing so they can make lots of money too. Sometimes the big company will decide to buy the other company so all the money stays theirs.

    Am I losing you? No? You're such a smart boy. Now get this. Sometimes the little company will even start their business with the intention of getting big enough that the big company will want to buy them? I know, it's crazy right?

    You've got it, right little Jimmy? Good. There was a dumb dumb on the internet today who thought it was a sign of weakness if a big company went out and bought another company. That's silly, right? Yeah, you've got it. Study hard at school and you'll never have to be a dumb dumb. Good boy.
  8. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 5:00pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    But the alphabet soup boxing has degenerated into is a healthy business model?
    I actually think it's a good thing there's no one sanctioning body that has cornered the market on boxing. This way, fighters can be judged on who they've fought and how they've performed rather than what trinket they've managed to grab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannetosen View Post
    Honestly, MMA is in a better state right now than it was before Zuffa bought Strikeforce.
    Would love to hear your argument, because I don't think so. I think the product has suffered.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    They earn the money to do this by giving their customers a superior product.
    I know enough about business to know that profit does not equate with "superior product". If this were the case, McDonalds would be considered gourmet and The Gap would be considered high end fashion.

    The UFC succeeds because on top of their talent -- which is not necessarily superior -- they have a killer marketing department. That's nice and dandy, but let's see what happens beyond the next 5 years.
  9. Mannetosen is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 5:07pm


     Style: MMA

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    I actually think it's a good thing there's no one sanctioning body that has cornered the market on boxing. This way, fighters can be judged on who they've fought and how they've performed rather than what trinket they've managed to grab.
    When talent is scattered all over the place, it makes it harder than neccessary to set up fights. Inflation of championships makes them redundant, and in practice most of them mean as much as toys you'd get with your happy meal.



    Would love to hear your argument, because I don't think so. I think the product has suffered.
    Zuffa recently started providing health insurance for ALL fighters that work under their banner, for one.

    Other than that things they've done so far (like the fighter summit) seem to point in direction of them "giving a ****" about their fighters instead of throwing them in front of the bus.

    And the product has suffered? Please. They had a few dud fights, but this can happen in all sports. So far we're not seeing much difference except better matchmaking in Strikeforce (as the old WEC crew essentially took over), the unified rules being adopted (which has caused fireworks like in Kawajiri vs Melendez) and Nick Diaz fighting GSP, which many wanted to see.

    Oh, and it also opens for potential mammoth fights like Melendez vs Edgar and Overeem vs Junior Dos Santos, both which make my mouth water.

    So please, HOW has MMA suffered from Zuffa buying out Strikeforce?
  10. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 5:52pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    I actually think it's a good thing there's no one sanctioning body that has cornered the market on boxing. This way, fighters can be judged on who they've fought and how they've performed rather than what trinket they've managed to grab.



    Would love to hear your argument, because I don't think so. I think the product has suffered.



    I know enough about business to know that profit does not equate with "superior product". If this were the case, McDonalds would be considered gourmet and The Gap would be considered high end fashion.

    The UFC succeeds because on top of their talent -- which is not necessarily superior -- they have a killer marketing department. That's nice and dandy, but let's see what happens beyond the next 5 years.
    Referring to a world championship as a trinket is a cowardly way of dancing around the fact that boxing has a completely broken method of recognizing it's top fighters.

    You may think you understand business, but it appears you missed the class on niche markets.

    Top talent and killer marketing? Sounds like a recipe for success to me.
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