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  1. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    Tell that to Europeans. The Klitschkos regularly sell out soccer stadiums over there. As stated, when Klitschko vs. Haye happens, it will be sell tremendously on PPV.



    No, the best example would be Dana's inability to book Fedor for any cards. And then, when Fedor lost a bout for the first time in years, Dana had the chutzpah to slag him. Yet, nobody in UFC has the record Fedor has.

    This is the best example of UFC fights that don't happen.



    People fight at catchweights all the time.



    I certainly hope so. If it does happen, it will be the most hyped UFC fight in years. Yet, no date has been announced.



    Straps don't really mean much, so I don't know why this matters to you. Any organization can produce a belt. They're trinkets that make you more marketable, but they don't establish who is the best.

    Great boxers forfeit their belts all the time in favour of fighting someone decent. There's no doubt in my mind that if Amir Khan beats Zab Judah, either the IBF or WBA will trip him of a belt.



    Yes, Manny Pacquiao has more worldwide appeal than Mike Tyson ever had. If you don't believe me, go to the Philippines where public life comes to a stand still whenever he fights. Or go to Mexico where he's treated like a rock star. Or go to Europe where his bout with Hatton was the biggest PPV in years.

    Or just observe PPV sales if and when the Mayweather bout happens. It will be bigger than Tyson's numbers.



    UFC young talent is not on the level of boxing young talent. Have a look at Saul Alvarez -- he's 20-years-old. Now try to look for his equivalent in UFC. You won't find it.


    The antitrust allegations are ridiculous. If they're going to investigate UFC, they might as well investigation MLB and the NBA too. But that's an entirely different matter.[/QUOTE]

    If the Klitschkos are so popular, it should be evidenced by PPV sales, but that hasn't been the case.

    Fedor in the UFC should've happened. I agree. You're up to two. Would you like me to make a list of boxing matches that should've happened, but didn't?

    Yes, people fight at catch weights all the time. And I expect GSP and Silva to do so as well. I believe Silva would've been GSPs next fight, had it not been for Dana wanting to get Diaz in the fold, which is also a giant fight that people have been screaming for. It's a scheduling and logistical issue, not an inability to make GSP vs Silva happen.

    Titles don't mean much in boxing because Joe the Plumber can win a title. Titles should mean something and they do in the UFC.

    You're using Manny's popularity in his home country as evidence of his worldwide popularity? Manny Pacquiao is NOT, and never will be as popular as Mike Tyson. You're smoking crack.

    Young MMA fighters are not as talented in their sport as young boxers? Again, lay down the pipe. That's a ridiculous statement.

    Yes, the antitrust allegations are ridiculous. But still evidence of the UFC's success.
  2. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 12:06pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    If the Klitschkos are so popular, it should be evidenced by PPV sales, but that hasn't been the case.
    Don't know why you think PPV sales are the sole indicator of popularity. Gate receipts and endorsements also indicate something -- which the Klitschkos have no problem with in Europe.

    Regardless, I'd be interested in knowing the PPV numbers Klitschko vs. Haye. Something tells me it will do better than Pacquiao vs. Hatton.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Fedor in the UFC should've happened. I agree. You're up to two. Would you like me to make a list of boxing matches that should've happened, but didn't?
    No, because this is a rabbit trail that detracts from the main point. To me, what's more important are the matches that have happened, and the matches that are imminently going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Yes, people fight at catch weights all the time. And I expect GSP and Silva to do so as well. I believe Silva would've been GSPs next fight, had it not been for Dana wanting to get Diaz in the fold, which is also a giant fight that people have been screaming for. It's a scheduling and logistical issue, not an inability to make GSP vs Silva happen.
    Dana White's more like a boxing promoter than UFC fans like to admit. We all know GSP vs. Silva would be an event that would transcend the sport of MMA. Yet, it hasn't happened. Perhaps Dana's waiting for the prime moment to play that card. If this is true, how's he not like Don King or Bob Arum?

    This whole thing of UFC always booking the best fights possible seems to me like marketing gobbledygook.

    Titles don't mean much in boxing because Joe the Plumber can win a title. Titles should mean something and they do in the UFC.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    You're using Manny's popularity in his home country as evidence of his worldwide popularity? Manny Pacquiao is NOT, and never will be as popular as Mike Tyson. You're smoking crack.
    No, I'm using Manny's popularity everywhere. Like I said, go to Mexico or Europe -- he's pretty big. Compare that to Tyson's worldwide appeal at his peak.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Young MMA fighters are not as talented in their sport as young boxers? Again, lay down the pipe. That's a ridiculous statement.
    I did. Name me a great UFC fighter under the age of 25 that is comparable in both talent and worldwide appeal to Alvarez, Khan, or Ortiz.
  3. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 12:18pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    Don't know why you think PPV sales are the sole indicator of popularity. Gate receipts and endorsements also indicate something -- which the Klitschkos have no problem with in Europe.

    Regardless, I'd be interested in knowing the PPV numbers Klitschko vs. Haye. Something tells me it will do better than Pacquiao vs. Hatton.



    No, because this is a rabbit trail that detracts from the main point. To me, what's more important are the matches that have happened, and the matches that are imminently going to happen.



    Dana White's more like a boxing promoter than UFC fans like to admit. We all know GSP vs. Silva would be an event that would transcend the sport of MMA. Yet, it hasn't happened. Perhaps Dana's waiting for the prime moment to play that card. If this is true, how's he not like Don King or Bob Arum?

    This whole thing of UFC always booking the best fights possible seems to me like marketing gobbledygook.

    Titles don't mean much in boxing because Joe the Plumber can win a title. Titles should mean something and they do in the UFC.



    No, I'm using Manny's popularity everywhere. Like I said, go to Mexico or Europe -- he's pretty big. Compare that to Tyson's worldwide appeal at his peak.



    I did. Name me a great UFC fighter under the age of 25 that is comparable in both talent and worldwide appeal to Alvarez, Khan, or Ortiz.
    Why would you expect me to defend Dana White? He's not the sport. He's a businessman. Who gives a **** about Dana White?

    Tyson's worldwide appeal at his peak? ****, Tyson's more popular NOW than Manny.

    A great UFC fighter under 25? There's a guy named Jose Aldo you might want to check out on Google. Ever hear of Jon Jones?

    With the international appeal of Alvarez, Khan, or Ortiz? Who?????
  4. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 12:53pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Why would you expect me to defend Dana White? He's not the sport. He's a businessman. Who gives a **** about Dana White?
    If you look at the title of my post, it's "Boxing vs. UFC". It not "Boxing vs. MMA". Hell, I love MMA -- but the UFC isn't doing it justice at the moment.

    Let me put it to you another way: recently, I had the chance to see UFC 131. Instead, I bought tickets to a small event run by a local promotion. I opted to buy tickets to the local promotion.

    Why? Because the local promotion with crappier talent has a more entertaining product.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Tyson's worldwide appeal at his peak? ****, Tyson's more popular NOW than Manny.
    In Asia, Manny is more relevant than Ali ever was here. If you don't think so, consider this: the guy is a congressman and popular singer in addition to being a fighter. The funny thing is, there's been better Asian boxers.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    A great UFC fighter under 25? There's a guy named Jose Aldo you might want to check out on Google. Ever hear of Jon Jones?
    Don't get me wrong. They're talented. I just don't think they excite people the way Amir Khan or Saul Alvarez does. They definitely don't put bums in the seats at Las Vegas arenas.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    With the international appeal of Alvarez, Khan, or Ortiz? Who?????
    So you're telling me you know who JCC Jr. is but not Amir Khan?
  5. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 1:03pm

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    I enjoy other MMA promotions as well. But there's a reason the UFC has emerged as the NFL of the MMA world. They've consistently put out the best product. I'm a capitalist. In my view, money talks and bullshit walks.

    I'm not going to continue further with the Tyson vs. Pacquiao popularity argument since it's an impossible dispute to settle.

    Sigh. I guess I also won't engage in the "who's more exciting, Khan and Alvarez or Aldo and Jones?" argument either since it will go nowhere. Although I think you're insane.

    Yes, I know who Khan and Alvarez are. I was being facetioius. I doubt though that you knew who Aldo and Jones were before you Googled them. Because if you were paying attention to what goes on in the UFC, you wouldn't have made an ignorant comment about talented fighters under 25.
  6. Tranquil Suit is online now
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    PrideFC was better. They had a better theme song. :)

    (tab) Forum > Forum Actions > General Settings > in Thread Display Options > Number of Posts to Show Per Page: 40
  7. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 1:08pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    PrideFC was better. They had a better theme song. :)
    I liked Pride better too, personally.
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    I liked Pride better too, personally.
    same here. I think (on the OP) Dana is wrong.

    MMA is the kind of sport that once you start watching, it's hard to stop watching mma...I agree. I still, however, love some old school and occasional new boxing, and watch K1 like a kickjunky.

    MMA enhanced my appreciation of the other sports, not diminished it.


    Also, IMO, boxing will never go away. It's a great sport, with a rich history.
  9. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 1:26pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Yes, I know who Khan and Alvarez are. I was being facetioius. I doubt though that you knew who Aldo and Jones were before you Googled them. Because if you were paying attention to what goes on in the UFC, you wouldn't have made an ignorant comment about talented fighters under 25.
    My point wasn't that Aldo and Jones aren't talented -- they are. They just don't seem to be the future face of MMA. Who is waiting in the wings to become the next Fedor or GSP? Nobody.

    Part of this may have to do with the UFC's penchant for promoting their brand over their fighters. It almost seems as though Dana wants to de-emphasize the UFC's biggest stars in favour of the next MEGA HUGE GREATEST BIGGEST EVENT IN UFC HISTORY!

    And you know what? That's a crying shame -- especially now that the constant claims to actually being "better" entertainment are getting a lot more questionable.
  10. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
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    No, I don't expect boxing to go away. It's been around since before Christ, after all. :)

    I just expect it to take a backseat in popularity and relevance as a combat sport as long as it coexists with MMA.

    That's the way it was with Pankration and boxing in the ancient Olympics and that's the way it is today.
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