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  1. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 8:55am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The most exciting MMA matches lately are stand up fights wich usually result in a mediocre at best kickboxing match, or if one of the fighters is afraid to be taken down, a bad boxing match.
    The only reason boxing is decreasing in popularity this days is because of the inflation of organizations out there. Too many "world champions".
    Can one compare the popularity of any of the MMA fighters to that of Mike Tyson?
    Allot of the UFC matches end up on the ground in a static guard with little to no movement. You have to train in grappling yourself to be able to enjoy something like that.
    I want also to ask Ricky if she thinks boxing is for pussies? :) and if you don't get banged up in sparing during boxing then maybe you don't really box. There is no question that any MMA fighter today train in western boxing specifically in addition to his MT or kickboxing or karate.
    The reason is obvious of course. You can see two of the best MMA in the world going to arguably the best boxing trainer to improve their skills.
    Last edited by erezb; 6/22/2011 9:17am at .
  2. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 9:07am

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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    The most exciting MMA matches lately are stand up fights wich usually result in a mediocre at best kickboxing match, or if one of the fighters is afraid to be taken down, a bad boxing match.
    The only reason boxing is decreasing in popularity this days is because of the inflation of organizations out there. Too many "world champions".
    Can one compare the popularity of any of the MMA fighters to that of Mike Tyson?
    Allot of the UFC matches end up on the ground in a static guard with little to no movement. You have to train in grappling yourself to be able to enjoy something like that.
    I want also to ask Ricky if she thinks boxing is for pussies? :) and if you don't get banged up in sparing during boxing than maybe you don't really box. There is no question that any MMA fighter today train in western boxing specifically in addition to his MT or kickboxing or karate.
    The reason is obvious of course. You can see two of the best MMA in the world going to arguably the best boxing trainer to improve their skills.
    The proof is in the pudding. UFC has sold more PayPerViews than boxing for several years in a row. In fact, I believe the WWE has outsold boxing as well.

    As far as your Mike Tyson argument goes - you can't compare the popularity of any current boxers to Mike Tyson either.

    And no, the numerous organizations are not the only reason boxing is decreasing in popularity. Boxing's fan base is getting older. New fight fans are flocking to MMA, rather than boxing, because it is more exciting.

    What's your point about MMA fighters training in boxing? Um, no ****. Nobody disputes that strong boxing skills make for a better MMA fighter. Good cardio makes for a better MMA fighter too, but that doesn't mean I want to go watch a marathon.
  3. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 9:40am


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    And don't even get me started on boxing's multitude of championship belts or the fact that the biggest fights never happen (Pacquiao, Mayweather).
    One of the biggest fights in boxing is happening in two weeks. Klitschko is fighting Haye.

    OTOH, the biggest possible fight card in MMA isn't happening. Why haven't we seen GSP fight Anderson Silva yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    The last boxing match I watched was Chavez Jr. vs Sebastion Zbik. Chavez Jr. won the WBC Middleweight championship. Then I had to listen to Max Kellerman and Roy Jones have an argument about whether Chavez Jr. was "the real middleweight champion" or not. What a joke.
    JCC Jr. is everything wrong with the boxing world. He's living off the fumes of daddy's name. His handlers are carefully managing his career, making sure he doesn't take any fights he can't win, marketing him as having a "lot of heart" -- when it's apparent to all he does not have an elite level of talent.

    The real middleweight champion is Sergio Martinez. Undisputed, he's the guy who sets the standard in the division. He's the one who completely owns it. JCC Jr. will never fight Martinez because if he did, he'd be exposed for the fraud that he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    The proof is in the pudding. UFC has sold more PayPerViews than boxing for several years in a row.
    I wonder if that's been true this past year. Pacquiao vs. Mosley sold phenomenally well. As for Haye vs. Klitschko, this has potential to outsell Mayweather vs. Hatton.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    As far as your Mike Tyson argument goes - you can't compare the popularity of any current boxers to Mike Tyson either.
    Manny Pacquiao is far more popular than Mike Tyson ever was -- with far more international appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    And no, the numerous organizations are not the only reason boxing is decreasing in popularity. Boxing's fan base is getting older. New fight fans are flocking to MMA, rather than boxing, because it is more exciting.
    Two years ago, I wouldn't argue with you. But, as UFC's quality of product has gone down, and boxing's quality of product has gone up, this is no longer the case.

    There's lots of great boxing talent under the age of 25. Yet, I can't name a single UFC prospect that setting the world on fire. I doubt the casual fight fan would, either.

    For UFC's growth to be sustainable, they got to start developing new stars. Currently, they promote their brand over their talent. That's a bloody shame.
  4. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 9:43am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    The proof is in the pudding. UFC has sold more PayPerViews than boxing for several years in a row. In fact, I believe the WWE has outsold boxing as well.

    As far as your Mike Tyson argument goes - you can't compare the popularity of any current boxers to Mike Tyson either.

    And no, the numerous organizations are not the only reason boxing is decreasing in popularity. Boxing's fan base is getting older. New fight fans are flocking to MMA, rather than boxing, because it is more exciting.

    What's your point about MMA fighters training in boxing? Um, no ****. Nobody disputes that strong boxing skills make for a better MMA fighter. Good cardio makes for a better MMA fighter too, but that doesn't mean I want to go watch a marathon.
    I still think that the more exciting matches are the one with more striking and movement (for your average fan that hardly ever stapped on a matt in his life, the kind that Boo when it gets a bit static) and Dana is messing about with the purity of the sport by braking too often so to keep it "interesting" and by denying fights from so cold boring fighters. IMO the best fights right now are in K1 kickboxing. I have to confess thou, that i do prefer slightly a good ufc match over a boxing match probably because i like the wrestling/grappling aspect as well. My favorite fighters are from a boxing background thou.
    By the way if there was ever a running match between various UFC fighters believe you me i would watch it!
  5. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 10:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpoet View Post
    One of the biggest fights in boxing is happening in two weeks. Klitschko is fighting Haye.

    OTOH, the biggest possible fight card in MMA isn't happening. Why haven't we seen GSP fight Anderson Silva yet?



    JCC Jr. is everything wrong with the boxing world. He's living off the fumes of daddy's name. His handlers are carefully managing his career, making sure he doesn't take any fights he can't win, marketing him as having a "lot of heart" -- when it's apparent to all he does not have an elite level of talent.

    The real middleweight champion is Sergio Martinez. Undisputed, he's the guy who sets the standard in the division. He's the one who completely owns it. JCC Jr. will never fight Martinez because if he did, he'd be exposed for the fraud that he is.



    I wonder if that's been true this past year. Pacquiao vs. Mosley sold phenomenally well. As for Haye vs. Klitschko, this has potential to outsell Mayweather vs. Hatton.



    Manny Pacquiao is far more popular than Mike Tyson ever was -- with far more international appeal.



    Two years ago, I wouldn't argue with you. But, as UFC's quality of product has gone down, and boxing's quality of product has gone up, this is no longer the case.

    There's lots of great boxing talent under the age of 25. Yet, I can't name a single UFC prospect that setting the world on fire. I doubt the casual fight fan would, either.

    For UFC's growth to be sustainable, they got to start developing new stars. Currently, they promote their brand over their talent. That's a bloody shame.
    Nobody gives a **** about Klitschko vs Haye except hardcore boxing fans.

    The best example you can come up with of UFC fights that don't happen is GSP vs. Silva? You do realize they're in different weight classes, right? Despite that, the fight will probably happen in the near future. Also, the UFC has purchased multiple competitors to make the best fights happen. Your argument is ridiculous.

    You're right about Chavez Jr. He's not an elite boxer. Yet, he owns a strap. Not good for boxing.

    We'll have to wait and see on the PPVs for 2011. I won't speculate.

    Manny Pacquiao is more popular than Mike Tyson? Give me a fucking break.

    I don't know how you can say the UFC's quality of product has gone down. Especially with the improvements in the heavyweight division. Also, if you don't see great young talent in MMA, it's because you're not paying attention at all. I don't dispute that there's great young boxing talent as well. I just don't think people really care.

    I find it ironic that you're lamenting the sustainability of UFC's growth at the same time their dominance in the industry is leading to antitrust allegations.
  6. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 10:12am

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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    I still think that the more exciting matches are the one with more striking and movement (for your average fan that hardly ever stapped on a matt in his life, the kind that Boo when it gets a bit static) and Dana is messing about with the purity of the sport by braking too often so to keep it "interesting" and by denying fights from so cold boring fighters. IMO the best fights right now are in K1 kickboxing. I have to confess thou, that i do prefer slightly a good ufc match over a boxing match probably because i like the wrestling/grappling aspect as well. My favorite fighters are from a boxing background thou.
    By the way if there was ever a running match between various UFC fighters believe you me i would watch it!
    I agree that Dana's screwing with the purity of the sport. But it's not by making the fighters break too often. He doesn't control the referees. He's screwing with the sport by publicly trashing his fighters when they use smart fighting tactics instead of wading in carelessly and throwing bombs like Kimbo Slice.
  7. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 10:15am

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    Let's throw something else in the mix. K-1 style kickboxing. Even the new restrictive rule sets are quite entertaining and fights are exciting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebound View Post
    I'm not anti-boxing by any stretch. It just doesn't appeal to me. I'd much rather watch a regional MMA show. To me, any MMA is better than boxing. But even if that were not the case, I'm nothing but excited for the upcoming UFC cards, not to mention Bellator.
    I'd rather not. MMA isn't easy, and the well round skill sets usually displayed at the higher levels take a long time to develop. A lot of local shows would produce great fights with a lot of spirit sure, but the techniques generally aren't there. I have no interest in watching unskilled/less skilled people going at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    The proof is in the pudding. UFC has sold more PayPerViews than boxing for several years in a row. In fact, I believe the WWE has outsold boxing as well.
    You're seriously presenting this as some type of argument? I expect better from you.
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  8. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 10:20am

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    Quote Originally Posted by PizDoff View Post
    You're seriously presenting this as some type of argument? I expect better from you.
    Why would PPV sales not be a valid indicator of the popularity of the respective sports?
  9. atomicpoet is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 10:55am


     Style: Western Boxing, Tai Chi

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Nobody gives a **** about Klitschko vs Haye except hardcore boxing fans.
    Tell that to Europeans. The Klitschkos regularly sell out soccer stadiums over there. As stated, when Klitschko vs. Haye happens, it will be sell tremendously on PPV.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    The best example you can come up with of UFC fights that don't happen is GSP vs. Silva?
    No, the best example would be Dana's inability to book Fedor for any cards. And then, when Fedor lost a bout for the first time in years, Dana had the chutzpah to slag him. Yet, nobody in UFC has the record Fedor has.

    This is the best example of UFC fights that don't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    You do realize they're in different weight classes, right?
    People fight at catchweights all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Despite that, the fight will probably happen in the near future.
    I certainly hope so. If it does happen, it will be the most hyped UFC fight in years. Yet, no date has been announced.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    You're right about Chavez Jr. He's not an elite boxer. Yet, he owns a strap. Not good for boxing.
    Straps don't really mean much, so I don't know why this matters to you. Any organization can produce a belt. They're trinkets that make you more marketable, but they don't establish who is the best.

    Great boxers forfeit their belts all the time in favour of fighting someone decent. There's no doubt in my mind that if Amir Khan beats Zab Judah, either the IBF or WBA will trip him of a belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Manny Pacquiao is more popular than Mike Tyson? Give me a fucking break.
    Yes, Manny Pacquiao has more worldwide appeal than Mike Tyson ever had. If you don't believe me, go to the Philippines where public life comes to a stand still whenever he fights. Or go to Mexico where he's treated like a rock star. Or go to Europe where his bout with Hatton was the biggest PPV in years.

    Or just observe PPV sales if and when the Mayweather bout happens. It will be bigger than Tyson's numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Also, if you don't see great young talent in MMA, it's because you're not paying attention at all. I don't dispute that there's great young boxing talent as well. I just don't think people really care.
    UFC young talent is not on the level of boxing young talent. Have a look at Saul Alvarez -- he's 20-years-old. Now try to look for his equivalent in UFC. You won't find it.[/quote]

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    I find it ironic that you're lamenting the sustainability of UFC's growth at the same time their dominance in the industry is leading to antitrust allegations.
    The antitrust allegations are ridiculous. If they're going to investigate UFC, they might as well investigation MLB and the NBA too. But that's an entirely different matter.
  10. Uglybugly is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2011 10:56am


     Style: judo

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    MMA is just more entertaining than boxing. I don't like the hype that Dana creates around the fights. It reminds me of wrestling hype. I am more than happy with just a good fight. I don't feel that any value is added by a clip where dana and joe rogan talks about how much these two fighters hate each others and that they are the greatest fighters in history. etc etc. Small fighters are also cooler to watch than big fighters.

    Three things that makes MMA more entertaining than boxing in my eyes
    - A more complete fight. takedowns, groundwork and striking.. striking with knees and kicks and elbows.. It is nice to see if it works.
    - MMA fighters use light gloves so jabs can be have enough punch for a K.O.
    - style vs style. It is always great to see different style clash it out. This makes strategy more important.
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