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  1. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 11:41pm

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Taijineigong View Post
    Like, I don't think, in the way I've experienced this, that it was some magical life force energy that was moving me (though sometimes I've gotten tingles / goosebumps from a good push or hit).
    Put down the bong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Ups to Battlefields for dropping the sage wisdom.

    You are like a Pimp Yoda.
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    Battlefields... You're more of a man than I am.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  2. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/17/2012 12:24am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Taijineigong View Post
    I have also felt this from a bunch of good tai chi guys. In fact, if they can't launch you 10-20 feet, or launch you straight up into the air, or knock you straight down to the ground like the floor had been removed from underneath you, I'd say they are not that good of an Internal Martial Artist.
    What planet are you from?
  3. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/17/2012 1:57am

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     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    if he's like other people i've spoken to about this, they count stumbling into the distance, not like a hammer toss up and over 15 feet. what this means is that someone could theoretically be thrown an infinitely long distance as long as they didn't hit anything or fall over.
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  4. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/17/2012 3:09am

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    if he's like other people i've spoken to about this, they count stumbling into the distance, not like a hammer toss up and over 15 feet. what this means is that someone could theoretically be thrown an infinitely long distance as long as they didn't hit anything or fall over.
    We're talking about the moon here, right? Weak gravitational force, etc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Ups to Battlefields for dropping the sage wisdom.

    You are like a Pimp Yoda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    Battlefields... You're more of a man than I am.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  5. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/17/2012 9:37am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    if he's like other people i've spoken to about this, they count stumbling into the distance, not like a hammer toss up and over 15 feet. what this means is that someone could theoretically be thrown an infinitely long distance as long as they didn't hit anything or fall over.
    Has anyone on thread been literally thrown up into the air, by an internal MA-ist? Do you think outside of compliant drills or "demo's" this can be done w/o a fairly large weight/strength difference?

    I've been pushed back, a few feet (it's called getting pushed - by anyone), but 10 - 20? Is that while drunk, or intoxicated somehow? I might be able to push a little kid 15 feet, before they fall over, but honestly...what kind of silly **** is that?
  6. AXPickle is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/17/2012 10:26am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I weigh almost 300 lbs and have a very compact body type (short limbs, big trunk etc). I've had people try to throw me in football or while rough housing. It doesn't work. Even if they lift my legs or grab my waist, they get me about half a foot. I think it's because I'm so large that my chi is concentrated at my core so I'm basically an immovable object.

    Alternatively, I could just scream "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch" and bulldoze the nearest tai chi user that claims internal enlightenment.
  7. taijidude is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2012 12:57pm


     Style: tai chi chuan, poekoelan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've done workshops with Master Chen and had him toss me around some. If you're pushing hands or just wrestling with him he has the ability to get right up under you and unroot you like crazy. It does sort of feel like the floor was pulled out from under you because when he does it, you don't feel an impact, it's more an acceleration in an upward and back direction and absolutely gives you a "what the ****" moment And he doesn't have to lift you all that high, the instant your feet leave the ground you're pretty much helpless. the good news for me was he isn't really interested in killing the people he does workshops with, so he doesn't exploit it just to prove a point. Dr. Tao Ping-Saing had the same ability, and might have even been better at it then William.
    Master Chen would be the first to tell you it's nothing mystical, it's just assloads of practice, proper posture/rooting/alignment and measured acceleration that makes it feel the way it does. I'll add that there's (as far as I know) little to no "compliance" in their workshops. Firstly because they just had no messiah complex whatsoever, and while I can't prove it, I suspect if either of them felt someone was doing that, they would have been happy to show you in short order that they didn't need it.
    Last edited by taijidude; 4/19/2012 12:59pm at . Reason: speeling...
  8. Taijineigong is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2012 1:39pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow! Lot of **** talkers without any direct experience. Interesting for the Bullshido forum, where I thought we were all about empirical evidence.

    These are all things I have experienced directly, in person ... so ask yourself: why would you call B.S. without experiencing these things for yourself?

    I will try to respond to the BS'ers specifically as I can, because perhaps I was not being as precise in my words as you nay-sayers require.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    if he's like other people i've spoken to about this, they count stumbling into the distance, not like a hammer toss up and over 15 feet.
    Yes, that is what I meant. Not a hammer toss up and over 15 feet, I meant sent stumbling backwards a long distance.

    FWIW, in those types of pushes, there is a way to stop stumbling backwards in a short distance. It's called "falling directly on my ass."

    In other words, if you want to consider the distance as if it were a hammer toss, where I just follow an arc and end up assward, flayed onto the ground, the distance would be more like 3-4 feet, maximum. Sorry for the confusion here.

    When it comes to the launch straight up into the air, this one is not much more than a foot or two off the ground, and from my experience, this must be one of the most difficult forms of being launched, as only 2 teachers I've ever seen could do this. And they both had 40+ years experience training with some of the highest level CIMA teachers on the planet.
  9. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2012 1:43pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Taijineigong View Post
    Wow! Lot of **** talkers without any direct experience. Interesting for the Bullshido forum, where I thought we were all about empirical evidence.

    These are all things I have experienced directly, in person ... so ask yourself: why would you call B.S. without experiencing these things for yourself?
    What makes you think people haven't experienced them in person themselves, and thus knew that you were exaggerating about being thrown twenty feet!!!! etc.


    FWIW, in those types of pushes, there is a way to stop stumbling backwards in a short distance. It's called "falling directly on my ass."
    You should practice your own sensitivity, sinking, and rooting more if the only way you can stop a stumble is to flop onto your ass.

    Sorry for the confusion here.
    Thanks, appreciate it.

    as only 2 teachers I've ever seen could do this. And they both had 40+ years experience training with some of the highest level CIMA teachers on the planet.
    You should get out more then. That sort of uprooting ain't all that difficult.
  10. Taijineigong is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2012 1:45pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Has anyone on thread been literally thrown up into the air, by an internal MA-ist? Do you think outside of compliant drills or "demo's" this can be done w/o a fairly large weight/strength difference?
    This is definitely much easier to do in compliant drills / "demo's" ... and when it comes to actually a non-compliant attack on these same teachers who have demo'd this on me, it is more often a much uglier immediate lock or strike. Granted, it is much more dangerous and painful for me if I try to test out the teacher in these regards, but it is definitely much less "pretty" and there are no long distance "magic" looking throws.

    FWIW here, one of my friends, a 25+ yr veteran who learned Okinawan Karate in Okinawa as a kid, who is now a ~240 lbs fit martial artist who trains with pro cage fighters, was in a demo with one of our teachers.

    In that demo, they were showing taijiquan to a group of MMA / sport fighters, and were working off a "scripted" list of moves. A "compliant demo" you could call it. My Okinawan friend wanted to show the group that the teacher could adapt and apply **** dynamically, so he deviated from the script and tossed a couple of unexpected punches at the teacher ... and ended up getting his neck broken.

    Basically, the unexpected strike ended up getting the teacher to move backward in an arc (evading to the outside), and in the process of locking the attacking arm, the teacher lost his balance, ended up dropping the student straight onto the ground & landing directly on top of his head, snapping some vertebrae in his cervical spine.

    Again, like I said, it is worth noting it's definitely not pretty if it's not a compliant demo with these types of guys, because people get seriously injured.

    I don't have more than 5-6 stories of this sort, because people quickly learn with teachers like that not to **** with them unless you are ready for some serious pain.

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