knife fighting and wingchun

**Kouch** · Posted On: 6/20/2011 10:48am

no im not lost!

iv noticed that there are alot of wing chunners that cross train in a stick/knife fighting art. like silat or kali. are there similarities between the two arts? concepts and footwork? angles? from researchin on it a bit, they do share some of the same qualities from what iv noticed. but seeing and actually doing are two very different things.

the stick arts are something im very interested in. id just like some input on if they may compliment eachother.

thanx fellas.

**madsox** · Posted On: 6/20/2011 9:55pm

Originally Posted by Kouch

no im not lost!

iv noticed that there are alot of wing chunners that cross train in a stick/knife fighting art. like silat or kali. are there similarities between the two arts? concepts and footwork? angles? from researchin on it a bit, they do share some of the same qualities from what iv noticed. but seeing and actually doing are two very different things.

Have to admit that I "did" WC for a few years, I guess it came out of my JKD-stuff background, wanting to see what the original looked and felt like.

There are a lot of parts of some Wing Chun styles (mine was a friend's mix of Augustine Fong/Pin Sun/something else) that do match in many ways, on the surface especially, with quite a bit of silat (I did almost 100% pencak silat for a decade). But the dynamics are really pretty different.

We did take the WC and, over the 2-3 years we had that club, bring in a lot of eskrima and some silat, and the chun kept looking less and less chunny - footwork had to change, all kinds of things.

So I think the best explanation for "why do wing chunners crosstrain" (and I'm not trying to be mean, this isn't YMAS) is that they want something that works better.

No offense, but I've just never found anyone doing "pure, traditional" WC who holds up in live, higher pressure, realistic as feasible testing. There are some of them out there, I just haven't met them in person.

Free opinion, it's worth what ya pay for it...

**Kouch** · Posted On: 6/21/2011 3:07pm

No offense, but I've just never found anyone doing "pure, traditional" WC who holds up in live, higher pressure, realistic as feasible testing. There are some of them out there, I just haven't met them in person.

none takin. we catch heat all the time.

thats another thing. why do you do stick fighting in JKD? JKD is essentially based from chun. so what does the stick fighting do to help or compliment that?

**Permalost** · Posted On: 6/21/2011 5:05pm

JKD isn't essentially based from wing chun. Its basic tools and stance are quite different.

Anyway, I'd say that generally, knifework shouldn't be like wing chun. With knives, no flat feet, no extended guard position, no extended bridging, and the emphasis is not all about the centerline.

**jspeedy** · Posted On: 6/21/2011 5:42pm

The only similarities I could see between chun and other FMAs are trapping range techniques. But, I think trapping is much different with a weapon than in empty hand. In Balintawak there is somewhat an emphasis on controlling the opponent and his weapon while in trapping range. However, the footwork is quite different from what i've seen of WC. In FMA it's a necessity to trap and control the opponent's stick for defense. With weapons it is better to control the knife or stick and eat a punch than than block a punch and get stabbed or ko'd.

**madsox** · Posted On: 6/21/2011 8:21pm

Originally Posted by Kouch

none takin. we catch heat all the time.

thats another thing. why do you do stick fighting in JKD? JKD is essentially based from chun. so what does the stick fighting do to help or compliment that?

Semantics. I was always in the "JKD is the ideas, Jun Fan/whatever is the art" camp when I was involved in that stuff.

That said, the ideas that I got (mostly from Dan Inosanto, but also from my TKD/HKD teachers before, and others since) stress the importance of training with specialists. You want to learn weapon work, find someone who really *really* focuses on weapons. You want striking, find a really good Muay Thai school, etc.

So even if you don't want to master one or the other, but just feel like you should learn to deal with it, you should go train with people who really *do* it.

I got a lot of good practice at bridging ranges, traps, all that stuff, from my limited WC-specific training. So it still has a place, just need to use it where it applies.

Anyway, I should change my tag line to not say "JKD" since I did, after all, just say it isn't a "style" or an "art".

Hey, thanks, Kouch - you just made me think, and that's hard to do! ;-)

Keep it real, whatever ya do, isn't that what it's about?

madsox

**Kouch** · Posted On: 6/24/2011 8:47am

Hey, thanks, Kouch - you just made me think, and that's hard to do! ;-)

Keep it real, whatever ya do, isn't that what it's about?

madsox

haha np man. i walys thought bruce lee meant that EVERYONE can/does JKD. its just expressing fighting in your own way.

but anyways i planned on getting into some kind of knife fighting. ideally silat. theres a club here in Indy. iv just been told that sometimes cross training in two different styles can make it hard to keep them separate while practicing. not that blending them is wrong, but if im at silat practice, i should learn to do it the "silat way" and not try to chun it out.

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 6/24/2011 10:18am

No specific view as yet, just typing to subscribe.

**Epa2** · Posted On: 6/29/2011 11:23am

As others have said, there is some overlap in that knife/stick styles may use trapping and wing chun uses trapping, but the application and tactics are pretty different in my experience. It will also depend on the style you do, if you learn a weapon style focused on long range or medium range there will be less overlap. If you do a style focused on close range work, there may be some more overlap. What specific styles are you looking at?

I'm from Indiana and I know one of the silat groups up in Indy. If the silat club in Indy is Craig Carpenter's then there will be minimal overlap between the knife and stick work and your wing chun. They do Pekiti Tirsia through Tim Waid and there is a heavy emphasis on ranging in and ranging out with only pretty basic trapping (hold the arm and stab them). You might see overlap in the empty hand silat if they are still teaching it, particularly the Cimande sub style of Mande Muda. At the later stages, the Cimande sets have wing chun like trapping sequences with the primary difference being the strike used to follow the trap.

Good luck