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View Poll Results: Do you own: Japanese Sword Fighting: Secrets of the Samurai?

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  • Yes, I admit to closet geekdom

    16 15.24%
  • No, never, you cant prove a thing

    53 50.48%
  • Ninjas stole my autographed copy

    36 34.29%
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  1. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 5:40pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hatsumi - Japanese Sword Fighting: Secrets of the Samurai

    So I was wondering through the downtown Chapters and by habit wandered into the Martial Arts section. And happened upon this book for the first time ever:

    So I picked it up and began to flip through. Now this is a beautifull book. Some of the best layouts in a martial arts book I have ever seen. Beautifull pictures, especially the ones in full Samurai armour. The pictorial instructions are very straightforward and I would say that most techniques in the book could be replicated by someone who really wanted to.

    Standing there flipping through this book really made me wistfully aware of how easy it would be to believe that the contents of the book are real Budo. The sad thing is that whomever wrote it for Hatsumi [Bruce Appleby and Doug Wilson...ed] did a very good job, conducted a phenomenal amount of research and are, in a lot of instances accurate. After all, the most effective lies are the ones that donít get told.

    And I have seen many of these techniques and descriptions in Iaido classes and in Draeger's books.

    Now I have a few of Draegers books, which are amazing, but this one is so nice I almost bought it as well - even being an ardent Bullshidoka chaser. But I was finally stopped by the self-evident confused of a "Ninja Grandmaster" writing a book about Samurai techniques.

    For those that have trained this, what were the sword training methods like? Is there anyone on the board that has trained Bujinkan and Iaido or Kendo that can make some comparisons?
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  2. shinbushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 6:29pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Askari
    So I was wondering through the downtown Chapters and by habit wandered into the Martial Arts section. And happened upon this book for the first time ever:

    So I picked it up and began to flip through. Now this is a beautifull book. Some of the best layouts in a martial arts book I have ever seen. Beautifull pictures, especially the ones in full Samurai armour. The pictorial instructions are very straightforward and I would say that most techniques in the book could be replicated by someone who really wanted to.

    Standing there flipping through this book really made me wistfully aware of how easy it would be to believe that the contents of the book are real Budo. The sad thing is that whomever wrote it for Hatsumi [Bruce Appleby and Doug Wilson...ed] did a very good job, conducted a phenomenal amount of research and are, in a lot of instances accurate. After all, the most effective lies are the ones that donít get told.

    And I have seen many of these techniques and descriptions in Iaido classes and in Draeger's books.

    Now I have a few of Draegers books, which are amazing, but this one is so nice I almost bought it as well - even being an ardent Bullshidoka chaser. But I was finally stopped by the self-evident confused of a "Ninja Grandmaster" writing a book about Samurai techniques.

    For those that have trained this, what were the sword training methods like? Is there anyone on the board that has trained Bujinkan and Iaido or Kendo that can make some comparisons?
    Thing is the bulk of th Bujinkan weapons training comes from Kukishinden Ryu which is a samurai art. So no it is not a ninja master playing samurai it is a bujutsu Soke showing his art.
  3. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 6:35pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shinbushi
    Thing is the bulk of th Bujinkan weapons training comes from Kukishinden Ryu which is a samurai art. So no it is not a ninja master playing samurai it is a bujutsu Soke showing his art.
    Have you cross trained this with Koryu arts? How does it compare?
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  4. Crushing Step is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 10:55pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shinbushi
    Thing is the bulk of th Bujinkan weapons training comes from Kukishinden Ryu which is a samurai art. So no it is not a ninja master playing samurai it is a bujutsu Soke showing his art.
    My thoughts exactly. Weather or not I believe one man can soke quite so many arts, giving the benefit of the doubt that his pedigree is legit I would say that there is nothing wrong with him putting out a samurai book.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaaki_Hatsumi

    Now if the guy is a legit samurai, (um, is that any less silly than saying he's a legit nin-rod?) and the fact that it was a beautiful and well researched book, I'd say calling him out like that is a bit out o line.

    I'll also add that accomplished English speaking writers doing the editing is very legit.

    I did know one guy who was an early RBWI student, who trained in sword arts there, and he spoke very highly of that training. He didn't name the style, so I can't say how close to the core Bussey remained.
  5. hl1978 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 11:11pm


     Style: Aunkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've got about 8 years muso jikiden eishin ryu expereince and saw this book at the local bookstore. I will check it out and compare it with my own knowledge.
  6. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 11:24pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks hl1978,

    I only had the opportunity to train Iaido for about 2 and a bit years, just enough to scratch the surface. I tend to buy all of the sword books I can get my hands on but before shelling out the 35 bucks, I want to think this one through a bit given the bad rap Hatsumi usually gets with regards to being the only source for his own claims etc.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  7. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 11:41pm


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis_Fist
    I did know one guy who was an early RBWI student, who trained in sword arts there, and he spoke very highly of that training. He didn't name the style, so I can't say how close to the core Bussey remained.
    And this didn't set alarm bells ringing?
  8. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 9:24am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis_Fist
    My thoughts exactly. Weather or not I believe one man can soke quite so many arts, giving the benefit of the doubt that his pedigree is legit I would say that there is nothing wrong with him putting out a samurai book.
    We dont do that around here. Actual real verifiable proof of rank and lineage is required on the Bullshido site.

    We do not give the benifit of the doubt.

    In this case, if the information in the book is close to legit Koryu, I want it for research purposes. But if it is complete hogwash, I want to stay away from it.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  9. shinbushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 3:31pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is no question of Masaaki Hasumi Sensei's rank and linage to Kukishiden Ryu, Happo Biken. Where people have a problem is the ninpo arts that cannot be proven past his teacher Takamatsu Sensei. Heck www.koryu.com even acknowledges his book on stick fighting as very good. http://www.koryu.com/library/mskoss5.html . 2/3's down the page or so.
  10. Plasma is offline
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    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 3:39pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Takamatsu primary ranking was a Shihan for Kukishin Ryu. Hatsumi's lineage for teaching Kukishinden Ryu comes from that. It was well documentated and proven.

    Hatsumi's Stick fighting book is Kukishin Ryu as well.
    Last edited by Plasma; 1/06/2007 3:45pm at .
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