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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:01pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Not lately, in fact you've casually dismissed almost everything everyone else has posted in the thread.

    Whereas I have merely dismissed you. You can feel free to dismiss me too if you wish, but stick to me. NASA, NSF, Nature, EPA, and climate science in general are clearly beyond your borders.
    More argument from authority without engaging with data.

    I read it all. Show me, where did you source a respectable scientific periodical or body that actually supported your positions against AGW?
    You aren't asking for a scientific argument here, but a reference to an authority figure who can give you an argument. I gave you an actual argument when I showed you the UAH temperature graph. No, that wasn't cribbed from the Daily Mail. It's UAH.

    No, I did not cite this story, I showed you the UAH data. This is a story citing the met office which the met office later denied. I haven't cited this story anywhere. Attention to detail is not your strong point.


    Yep models change over time. That's why we use models and simulations.
    Think about what you've just said. Are you claiming that models, by their very nature, are not falsifiable because no matter how far their predictions are from observed data, you just continue to accept their predictions depending on your name recognition of the institute that built the model?

    That's not science, that's practically mediaeval scholasticism. It's like accepting a claim about martial arts from somebody who just got humiliated in an MMA match because they're a member of a big, respected, Karate association.

    They don't get "raped" though, nor do new hypotheses categorically erase decades of climate research just because the data suggests new variables might have to be considered.
    Yeah, they do. This is all about the trustworthiness of predictions of future temperature. You shouldn't trust predictions of future temperature coming from models which were so wrong about current temperature.


    This is a false dichotomy. What I think is completely different than your options. What I know is your assertion about it not getting warmer is based on a very selective viewpoint that doesn't match up with the entire realm of climate science.
    It's based on widely accepted, peer reviewed data sources which even proponents of AGW accept in their own papers and then attempt to explain, rather than deny.

    You're trying to defend a hypothesis which is already failing on the grounds that you really believe in the institutions that produced it.
    Last edited by Cullion; 12/18/2012 7:07pm at .
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  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:02pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    I've posted multiple sources, but you either don't read them or claim they're bogus because despite being peer-reviewed academic research you think that anything hosted on a site run by somebody who agrees with me and not you is automatically false.

    The people you believe have said, for years, that it should be much warmer now than it actually is. That's just a fact, and even most proponents of the AGW hypothesis now acknowledge it.

    Now, you either think it doesn't matter that it's not warmer, or you dispute the temperature graphs I've shown you. Which is it ?

    Have you published peer-reviewed science in recognised journals or not ?
    Your sources believe in agw.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    There's not enough words to describe my existence.

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:02pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another credible source on the "Global Warming Stopped 15 years ago" myth.

    Claims global warming stopped 15 years ago are based on "cherry-picked" data and don't account for natural fluctuations in climate, according to climate scientists responding to an article that appeared Saturday (Oct. 13) in the British newspaper, The Daily Mail.
    http://www.livescience.com/24006-did...stop-1997.html
  4. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:11pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    Your sources believe in agw.
    My sources are observations, not people. Some of the people who collected those observations believe in some variant of AGW, but your most recent cite does not believe in the alarmist variant requiring massive economic intervention that you believe in.

    That's by-the-by, as has been pointed out to your before, you aren't making a cogent scientific point by talking about what the person who collected data believes. It's what the data itself supports or does not support that matters. The data does not support the idea that it is getting warmer, and it does not support the predictions of the models which are being used to justify the massive economic intervention you are trying to defend.
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  5. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:12pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Another credible source on the "Global Warming Stopped 15 years ago" myth.



    http://www.livescience.com/24006-did...stop-1997.html
    Rabbit, look at the graphs yourself. Do you honestly believe the data shows it has been getting warmer for the last 15 years ?

    Last edited by Cullion; 12/18/2012 7:17pm at .
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  6. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:21pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your entire line of reasoning is based on a tabloid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    You shouldn't trust predictions of future temperature coming from models which were so wrong about current temperature.
    Then we should throw all of quantum mechanics out, because we sure can't trust predictions based on statistical probability.

    Oh wait...we can.

    You are the only one claiming the mainstream, accepted climate models have been "falsified", which happens to be the exact argument made by the Daily Mail and it's legion of bloggers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    You're trying to defend a hypothesis which is already failing on the grounds that you really believe in the institutions that produced it.
    Yes I believe in NASA and Bill Nye, they have robots on Mars.

    If one thing is absolutely certain, it's that you have dug in the position that "Global Warming Stopped X Years Ago". Much like clinging to "Climategate" isn't going to help you, it definitely hurts your argument that anyone can trace that argument back to UK tabloids with a single Google search, along with a long series of refutations of that position by mainstream scientific authorities.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 12/18/2012 7:35pm at .
  7. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:33pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    My sources are observations, not people. Some of the people who collected those observations believe in some variant of AGW, but your most recent cite does not believe in the alarmist variant requiring massive economic intervention that you believe in.

    That's by-the-by, as has been pointed out to your before, you aren't making a cogent scientific point by talking about what the person who collected data believes. It's what the data itself supports or does not support that matters. The data does not support the idea that it is getting warmer, and it does not support the predictions of the models which are being used to justify the massive economic intervention you are trying to defend.
    The intervention I believe or don't believe in (which you're pulling out of your ass) has no bearing on climate science.

    Taking the position "it's not happening" because you don't want to discuss the magnitude of the solution is idiotic.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    Do you honestly believe the data shows it has been getting warmer for the last 15 years ?
    Do you really believe those graphs in any way show "global warming has stopped"?

    Did you know I just linked your graph+argument to AGW denier, fringe blogger, and disgraced former "Watt's Up With That" guest author Steven Goddard?

    Did you know it took me eleven seconds to find UAH data that might cause a reasonable person to doubt your selective choice?



    Source: UAH

    I have no problem with AGW skepticism, but I refuse to accept abject cynicism.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 12/18/2012 7:40pm at .
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Your entire line of reasoning is based on a tabloid.
    No it is not, it's based on peer reviewed science which you've found paraphrased in a tabloid and then falsely assumed that my opinion is based on that tabloid which I've never used as a source.

    Then we should throw all of quantum mechanics out, because we sure can't trust predictions based on statistical probability.

    Oh wait...we can.
    This is not a valid comparison. Quantum Mechanics makes testable predictions which are verified, in some cases (like with QED) to an extraordinary degree of accuracy.

    In this case, we have models, with margins of error as you'd expect, and observations which have been outside those margins of error for many years.

    You are the only one claiming the mainstream, accepted climate models have been "falsified"
    Do you believe that there is an AGW-inspired model in existence which has correctly predicted the temperature trend of the last 15 years?

    Show it to me.

    Yes I believe in NASA and Bill Nye, they have robots on Mars.
    Bill Nye is an entertainer with a BS in mechanical engineering, not a scientist. He's an entertainer. It's just nuts to believe that because one team at NASA can land a robot on Mars that their predictions about climate must be accepted regardless of how they diverge from observation.

    I don't believe in scientific "claims"

    If one thing is absolutely certain, it's that you have dug in the position that "Global Warming Stopped X Years Ago". Much like clinging to "Climategate" isn't going to help you, it definitely hurts your argument that anyone can trace that argument back to UK tabloids with a single Google search, along with a long series of refutations of that position by mainstream scientific authorities.
    This just shows how little you've followed this scientific debate over the years. Do you really believe that Daily Mail story from this year was the first time somebody pointed out the discrepancy between temperature predictions and observations ?

    Really?
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  10. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 7:35pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    Rabbit, look at the graphs yourself. Do you honestly believe the data shows it has been getting warmer for the last 15 years ?

    ...Is this taken from a poorly made Bible website?
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