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  1. Chromium is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 4:23am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Werdum really, really should have had a Plan B. Or if he did, he should have had a better one. I found Dave Herman's claim that BJJ "really doesn't work" to be highly amusing, but what Werdum was doing made me think of Dave Herman. If you can't actually get your opponent to the ground, then BJJ's usefulness is going to be severely limited. This is where wrestling comes in. I know Overeem isn't the easiest guy to take down, but it seemed like he completely stopped trying for an orthodox takedown after Overeem sprawled out of a few in the first round. So ironically it's wrestling that Werdum should be working more on now, not his striking (or judo, if he can train with a guy like Satoshi Ishii). He's never going to be a better overall striker than Overeem, but it seems worlds better than it used to be and is actually commendable.
  2. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 4:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    According to PointyShinyBurns the ref should have forced Overeem to get in Werdum's guard.
    Nope, but neither should they make him stand. Let him do this:
    if he wants to.
  3. danno is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 6:06am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elipson View Post
    Werdum's game seemed to be that he expected Overeem to follow him to the ground, even though he had no rational reason to do so.
  4. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 7:57am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Nope, but neither should they make him stand. Let him do this:
    if he wants to.
    I'm fine with allowing that tactic - if they also allow head kicks to a grounded opponent. Otherwise, it just amounts to stalling.
  5. ronaldk is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 10:05am


     Style: BJJ / freestyle wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Himura View Post
    1. It's an MMA match. If want to do all of your fighting on the ground attend grappling matches. I've heard a lot of BJJ guys complain about how it is unfair that a fight starts on the feet, and it is annoying as ****. How many fights in real life start on the ground? I've never been hanging out in someone's guard talking **** when things escalated to a full blown fight. This argument is absurd. It would be like if Randy Couture came out after his fight with Machida and said I didn't win because they started the fight standing apart from each other when really to be fair to me it should have started with Machida up against the cage with me leaning on him.

    2. It is difficult to to put together effective striking when your opponent blocks one strike then falls to the ground pretending to be knocked down in hopes that you will jump into his guard.

    3. No one suggested it was sane for him to attempt to stand with Overeem. He would have been outclassed in striking, but it is on him to bring the fight down to the ground, and laying on the ground and saying come get me does not constitute a takedown. Neither does pretending to be knocked down by a punch hoping that he will jump in and give you a chance to submit him. If you want to fight on the ground then you better be able to take it there. If you can't get the fight to the ground then you shouldn't just lay there like an idiot saying herp derp come lay on top of me where I feel most comfortable. Get your ass up throw some strikes and wait for an opening to take the fight to the ground.
    1. yes, it's an MMA match. that's why Werdum lost. and i don't see where i said the decision should have been otherwise. what the hell are you talking about? who said anything about the fight being "unfair" for Werdum? i was more analyzing what Werdum was doing vs. what were his options in this scenario, and i don't believe he had too many. i'm merely stating he shouldn't get that much flack, as he was doing what he could to try and catch something without getting mauled on the way (and you could visibly tell he was getting damaged in the striking exchanges, as he'd get up slower each time, yet he'd keep trying to mess with Reem and see if he could get him to **** up)

    2. about as hard as it is to work your ground game when your opponent stands up at every opportunity, and outweighs you by a decent bit. you can't blame Werdum for trying to change levels into where he's good, not to mention sparing him death by punch to the face. if you do, then give Overeem **** for refusing to work inside his guard. they were BOTH avoiding eachother.

    3. it's on him to bring it to the ground, for sure. he's free to do this any way he sees fit, trickery or otherwise. but please, PLEASE explain to me your master plan to take overeem down, that doesn't involve wrestling with him because you'd get beat, or clinching with him in general to throw because he will probably knee you into oblivion or perhaps uppercut your jaw into space or just dirty box you into a bloody mess.
  6. ronaldk is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 10:38am


     Style: BJJ / freestyle wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    also, Overeem had this to say on his appearance on The MMA Hour:

    "I won the fight but I was not satisfied," Overeem said. "I didn't get a KO. I worked hard, and when i look at the fight, I did dominate him. I stuck to the game plan but you have to give credit to Fabricio -- he was prepared. He was not going to get suckered into my game, which is the stand up, and he got me out of my game. His takedowns were not successful, but I think he trained hard for this fight, he really wanted to win. I felt his power and he was there to win."

    he also said he doesn't respect the way Werdum was doing things, frantically flopping and pulling guard, but i think the above does state Overeem could tell Werdum was working hard trying to get him. just as he wouldn't get suckered into Werdum's game, Werdum refused to play his.
  7. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 12:30pm

    supporting member
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Werdum looked like a bitch.

    The end.
  8. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 3:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldk View Post
    also, Overeem had this to say on his appearance on The MMA Hour:

    "I won the fight but I was not satisfied," Overeem said. "I didn't get a KO. I worked hard, and when i look at the fight, I did dominate him. I stuck to the game plan but you have to give credit to Fabricio -- he was prepared. He was not going to get suckered into my game, which is the stand up, and he got me out of my game. His takedowns were not successful, but I think he trained hard for this fight, he really wanted to win. I felt his power and he was there to win."

    he also said he doesn't respect the way Werdum was doing things, frantically flopping and pulling guard, but i think the above does state Overeem could tell Werdum was working hard trying to get him. just as he wouldn't get suckered into Werdum's game, Werdum refused to play his.
    Quite a flip flop from this interview where he trashes Werdum, saying he didn't come to fight and he should be ashamed etc.

  9. Valiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 4:49pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Odacon View Post
    Quite a flip flop from this interview where he trashes Werdum, saying he didn't come to fight and he should be ashamed etc.


    That's just what we call pillow-talk, baby.
  10. Tranquil Suit is online now
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    I have emotions.

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 5:37pm

    supporting member
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    "I wish I knew how to quit you...."
    Repost, cause I love this so much.

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