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  1. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 12:35pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    Overeem was able to have the referee force the fight to take place in his area of strength.
    Fixed.
  2. blackmonk is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 12:43pm

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     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sure it's a highly unpopular opinion, but I love it when high-level BJJ guys pull guard in MMA fights. It's a strategy like any other, and should be interpreted as such. Laying on your back and inviting someone into your guard isn't what I'm talking about. I'm describing a well set-up, well-timed, and active guard pulling. More along the lines of aoki (on occasion), imanari, and others, not so much thales leites, werdum-of-late, or the like.
  3. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 12:50pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Fixed.
    So now we're going to blame Werdum's bullshit on the rules? The same rules that kept Overeem from stomping the everliving **** out of Werdum's head while he basically used the fetal position as his fight strategy? I'll call the rules a wash.

    Laying on your back hoping your opponenent will decide to come down and have a BJJ match with you is a gay ass strategy. It's an embarrassment to the sport.
  4. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 12:56pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    I'm sure it's a highly unpopular opinion, but I love it when high-level BJJ guys pull guard in MMA fights. It's a strategy like any other, and should be interpreted as such. Laying on your back and inviting someone into your guard isn't what I'm talking about. I'm describing a well set-up, well-timed, and active guard pulling. More along the lines of aoki (on occasion), imanari, and others, not so much thales leites, werdum-of-late, or the like.
    Sure, if a fighter can jump guard, get his opponent down and hold him there - more power to him. But like you said, that's not what Werdum did. He verbally begged his opponent to do something completely retarded.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 10:06pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    According to PointyShinyBurns the ref should have forced Overeem to get in Werdum's guard. Am I doin it rite?
  6. danno is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 12:39am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    werdum tried to bait alistair into doing this:



    that is, to strike from inside werdum's guard so that he might expose himself to a submission.

    but alistair refused to make a single mistake or take any risks, and stood up or stalled once they were on the ground. which is exactly what he should have done to avoid playing into werdum's game.

    devil mentioned that he's fine with fighters who pull guard effectively and keep their opponent there. i felt the same about werdum, i would have preferred that he jumped to closed earlier. he did it once or twice towards the end of the fight and managed to hold reem down for a while.

    but i don't like the vitriol people are showing. many people are AGNRY at werdum, which i think is very unfair. he didn't intend for the fight to play out the way it did, he wanted to finish the fight with a submission.

    i don't have a problem with how the fight played out. we got to see what happens when these two particular fighters were pitted against each other, two of the best in the world. you have to figure out how to take the fight to where you have the greatest advantage over your opponent. neither of them could really accomplish this on the night. i still find that really interesting.

    what we can take away from this, is that werdum needs to develop other parts of his game to a world-class level if he wants to beat the reem. and some steroids wouldn't hurt either.
  7. Himura is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 1:10am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldk View Post
    Reem has a positional advantage, because his strength is where the fight starts; standing. Werdum's assumed faggotry stemming from him jumping into a fishflop at every possible chance can be considered cowardice. but i believe then so should Overeem's happiness to GTFO every time it hit the ground. many state that it'd be retarded to hang out in the guard of MMA's best HW bjj guy. so you are to suggest it is anywhere near SANE to allow yourself to stand in front of the best HW kickboxer in the world?

    the way i'm looking at it, Werdum was trying to do what he could standing, bring it down, and work. Overeem did little standing, and would refuse to engage whatsoever on the ground.

    Overeem was so scared of Werdum's grappling he was scared to strike.
    1. It's an MMA match. If want to do all of your fighting on the ground attend grappling matches. I've heard a lot of BJJ guys complain about how it is unfair that a fight starts on the feet, and it is annoying as ****. How many fights in real life start on the ground? I've never been hanging out in someone's guard talking **** when things escalated to a full blown fight. This argument is absurd. It would be like if Randy Couture came out after his fight with Machida and said I didn't win because they started the fight standing apart from each other when really to be fair to me it should have started with Machida up against the cage with me leaning on him.

    2. It is difficult to to put together effective striking when your opponent blocks one strike then falls to the ground pretending to be knocked down in hopes that you will jump into his guard.

    3. No one suggested it was sane for him to attempt to stand with Overeem. He would have been outclassed in striking, but it is on him to bring the fight down to the ground, and laying on the ground and saying come get me does not constitute a takedown. Neither does pretending to be knocked down by a punch hoping that he will jump in and give you a chance to submit him. If you want to fight on the ground then you better be able to take it there. If you can't get the fight to the ground then you shouldn't just lay there like an idiot saying herp derp come lay on top of me where I feel most comfortable. Get your ass up throw some strikes and wait for an opening to take the fight to the ground.
  8. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 1:36am

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Himura View Post
    I've heard a lot of BJJ guys complain about how it is unfair that a fight starts on the feet
    Fail..... :GTFO:
  9. danno is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 2:21am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Himura View Post
    I've heard a lot of BJJ guys complain about how it is unfair that a fight starts on the feet, and it is annoying as ****.
    woah, i've NEVER heard anyone say that before. ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himura View Post
    pretending to be knocked down by a punch hoping that he will jump in and give you a chance to submit him.
    no, perfectly legit in my opinion. or did you complain when he submitted fedor the same way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Himura View Post
    If you want to fight on the ground then you better be able to take it there. If you can't get the fight to the ground then you shouldn't just lay there like an idiot saying herp derp come lay on top of me where I feel most comfortable.
    well yeah, if it doesn't work for an entire round or more, you might want to try something else. but honestly, i don't know what else he could have done which might have improved his chances of winning. he felt that the most likely way he was going to win, was to get alistair on the ground. at least by his judgement, anything else would just be a faster way to lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himura View Post
    Get your ass up throw some strikes and wait for an opening to take the fight to the ground.
    he tried that, but he wasn't good enough at it.
  10. elipson is offline
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    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2011 2:54am

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     Style: BJJ, mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no, perfectly legit in my opinion. or did you complain when he submitted fedor the same way?
    I have to agree with Danno here. Tricking your opponent into playing your game is totally acceptable.

    I don't like how Werdum expected Overeem to willingly engage Werdum in his strongest area. If you want to fight a ground game, you have to TAKE IT THERE. You can't expect your opponent to play into your strength just because. That would have been stupid.

    Werdum's game seemed to be that he expected Overeem to follow him to the ground, even though he had no rational reason to do so. His game was based on his opponent doing something stupid (like following him into guard), instead of Werdum doing something good (like actually taking him down). That's just bad strategy.
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