Cho's TKD Scotland

**Master Betty** · Posted On: 6/16/2011 1:08pm

Essentially a small group of clubs all ran with "master" Kirkwood at the helm as one large club in different premises. The one I spent most of my time at before realizing what a load of sweaty horse testicles TKD is was in Larkhall, Lanarkshire. It's ran by a hugely overweight instructor in a black gi (so you know he's deadly) with a chip on his shoulder the size of France. Or maybe Italy. Hell, I'll let the ratings speak for themselves:

Aliveness: 3
Lots of patterns, compliant drills, 3 step sparring (wtf is the point in that **** guys seriously), air punching (not shadow boxing, the difference is huge) and any and all sparring they do is very light point sparring, albeit continuous. Just about every sparring "match" has one person apologising to the other for tapping them too hard.

Equipment: 1
It's in a sports hall and occasionally, the instructor might bring along 2 kickshields.

Gym size: 4
Like I said previously, it's in a sports hall in a leisure centre. About the same size as a five asides pitch. Big, but with a solid varnished floor and **** all else.

Instructor/Student ratio: 4/5
Classes are typically quite large (about 30 people) with the one instructor and a whole bunch of junior instructors (who can be as young as 13). Instructor takes the full class but you never get any 1 on 1. Wouldn't make much difference anyway - see striking instruction.

Atmosphere: 3
The class is full of kids, middle aged parents and socially inept young guys. They're all really friendly but it's pretty cultish and if the instructor were to tell them not to speak to you outside training, they wouldn't. The instructor is a pompous ass who will become pretty snide if you tell him you train in another martial art. Because TKD is the best apparently.

Striking Instruction: 4
It only rates this high in the sense that at least they try to throw punches and kicks. The school has no members or instructors who compete outside of TKD events and their big thing is semi-contact point sparring. The instructor doesn't know his arse from his elbow and doesn't have the knowledge to teach someone basic balance, footwork or guard nevermind how to actually throw a halfway decent punch or kick.

Grappling Instruction: 4
Again it rates this high because at least they actually try. None of the instructors has any real grappling knowledge outside what they learn at the annual AIMAA summer camp with "master" Ameris, Combat magazine or watching the UFC. Indeed, one of my mates who went there for a while also trains with one of the Gracie BJJ schools in Scotland and could outroll the whole lot of them after a couple weeks instruction. I can outroll them and I've never trained in BJJ except for the odd crosstraining session here and there.

Weapons: 1
They think they do weapons. They don't. Occasionally some fat bloke whips out the nunchuks and swings them about as if he knows what he's doing with them.

All in all, stay the **** away from this gym. Yes, this gym may be the reason why I think TKD sucks major cheesy dick but I've seen very little to tell me that it gets much better. If you've seen the movie "The Foot Fist Way", you've seen Cho's TKD. They're affiliated with AIMAA who are a squad of out and out belle ends with little to no actual fighting experience. Can't really think of anything else to say about this place but any questions about it, my experiences of it or whatever, feel free to ask away.

And if you love TKD and get a hardon every time you watch Undisputed 3 and want to flame me for telling it like it is: **** off.

**MichaelDescado** · Posted On: 6/20/2011 10:18am

Soooooo you're kind of on the fence about it then?

**Master Betty** · Posted On: 6/21/2011 3:34pm

haha I'm open to the possibility, in theory, that maybe, just maybe, I might be wrong.

**danharr** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 6:14pm

Man that's sad the Cho's branch here in Houston is cool none of the problems you mentioned.

**Master Betty** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 6:28pm

Originally Posted by danharr

Man that's sad the Cho's branch here in Houston is cool none of the problems you mentioned.

I have to say though mate - if they follow the whole Grandmaster Cho/Master Ameris bullshit cultish thing. Then it's got it's problems and meaning no disrespect to you at all - I don't trust the opinion of someone who's sole striking training is with Cho's because you won't have much of a basis for comparison (if, indeed, it is your sole striking). Indeed, like most of these cults, the first thing they like to do is brainwash their students. I know because I was one of em years ago. I didn't see the above problems when I trained with em and I'd probably have been on here given em a 10 in everything and generally making myself look like a fucking moron.

**danharr** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 7:18pm

By training I take it you mean other Tkd schools. Yeah in the future I plan on checking into other schools of all my disciplines it's good to get another perspective on an art.

**Master Betty** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 7:40pm

Originally Posted by danharr

By training I take it you mean other Tkd schools. Yeah in the future I plan on checking into other schools of all my disciplines it's good to get another perspective on an art.

No, I mean someone who's sole experience in striking is limited to TKD. And especially if that person has only ever trained with Cho's.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 7/03/2011 8:05pm

Originally Posted by Master Betty

I have to say though mate - if they follow the whole Grandmaster Cho/Master Ameris bullshit cultish thing. Then it's got it's problems and meaning no disrespect to you at all - I don't trust the opinion of someone who's sole striking training is with Cho's because you won't have much of a basis for comparison (if, indeed, it is your sole striking). Indeed, like most of these cults, the first thing they like to do is brainwash their students. I know because I was one of em years ago. I didn't see the above problems when I trained with em and I'd probably have been on here given em a 10 in everything and generally making myself look like a fucking moron.

No. There are schools and teachers that look at the GM cult thing sideways. My school did so, unless you go train at his school you do not know what you are talking about.

**Master Betty** · Posted On: 7/04/2011 1:26am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

No. There are schools and teachers that look at the GM cult thing sideways. My school did so, unless you go train at his school you do not know what you are talking about.

I can believe that - but I would be surprised if you were talking about a Cho's school or AIMAA school. They really push the cult thing from the top all the way to the bottom. And I once went to the AIMAA summer camp thing they do and seen students from many of the schools they have all over america - it was the same crap through and through. If it's got anything to do with GM cho - then it'll probably be the same as my experience with maybe slight differences. One thing cho and AIMAA are is consistent.

**danharr** · Posted On: 1/19/2012 11:33pm

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

But although you may believe the instruction you receive at Cho's meets a high standard, it is unfortunate that their business practices do not reflect your beliefs.

First and fortemost, Cho's is a BELT MILL.
In other words - no fee - no move up.
Even if the student is in the same class with others learning the same techniques and movements, demonstrating sportsmanlike behavior and proficiency, and following all the dojang guidelines.

Conversely, with payment of fee which usually sits at around $60 per application, the student miraclulously has achieved the "approval" to move up - even if it is crystal clear that the student has sub-par skills and should remain at the current belt level until they can demonstrate proficiency.

Another Belt Mill Red Flag - Testing is a group dog and pony show where instructors are given the opportunity too steal the show and demonstrate their well choreographed skills. In every other reputable martial arts environment, testing is an INDIVIDUALIZED process, unique to each student.

Second - Instructors consistently utilize class time to "push" recruiting initiatives onto students. When the initiatives fail to bring the desired "recruits", the promotions are conveniently canceled or rescheduled.

Third - Instructors consistently utilize class time to take phone calls from the "Grand Master", who's sole reason for calling is to get a body count. There is a time and place for operational business calls, when the school is closed - class time is not an acceptable platform.

Black Belt Clubs & Contracts all reek of a business that operates solely to make as much profit off each student as possible.

Its appalling.

In my branch of Cho's people are held back from testing all the time myself included and during testing there is no one on the floor except the students. I think you have the black belt demo and or the school end of the year days. Also in Houston Master Cho "the brother" is there and he monitors the class no phone calls or slacking and Instructors don't push us to recruit anyone. Don't know what you based your post on and perhaps I should've said something earlier but after a year I have seen none of the things you described.

It's been a year and still none of what you experienced have I been though here in Houston. It would appear that the brother is worlds different from the founder thank goodness.