Bujinkan Randori? Video

**Lindz** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:35pm

Originally Posted by RRWAA

it was indeed light randori, they WERE taking turns, it was level 1 randori in our dojo. There and different levels to randori and yes we do them all. But that clip showed what that clip showed.

So how is level 1 randori supposed to work? Normally taking turns would mean it's a drill and not randori/sparring.

**yli** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:44pm

Originally Posted by RRWAA

Such suits are a double edged sword.

How so? When properly used, they can be a great training asset.

**pokeroo** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:44pm

I think you could put an end to a lot of questions if you posted some level 10 randori or whatever level is full resistance (or close). Members here are pretty skeptical and I'm surprised no-one has outright accused you of lying about your randori levels (probably because with the class you have displayed so far they don't want to drive you away). Anyway, you don't have to post anything, but it would sure drop some peoples jaw if you did.
:EWBTE2::staredad:

**RRWAA** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:47pm

Originally Posted by Lindz

So how is level 1 randori supposed to work? Normally taking turns would mean it's a drill and not randori/sparring.

Yes all randori is a drill. All "sparring" is a drill as well! Even kata and prearranged training is a drill. Just to be clear Randori is often translated (poorly) as sparring. Sparring is different. A basic way to understand randori is that from preset training, you begin to add chaos.

In any techniques, to learn it, you must train with zero resistance, you set up a situation to teach a concept. Then because nothing in life is set up, we must train to apply concepts in unpredictable and changing environments. That is randori...

What you see in the video is in our dojo level 1. Meaning that while still taking turns, the "feed" is not static. There is movement and different energy. They were allowed to attempt a limited number of techniques and had to find the timing and distance etc. to pull it off.

As can be seen a few times the balance of the uke was not taken properly, or the distance was off etc. This is the only way to learn, you must log hours of these types of drills or you can never really use what you "know"...

At this level they were still helping each other, yet trying to provide a bit more challenge than static training...

Thanks for the question.

-Rick

**RRWAA** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:48pm

Originally Posted by pokeroo

I think you could put an end to a lot of questions if you posted some level 10 randori or whatever level is full resistance (or close). Members here are pretty skeptical and I'm surprised no-one has outright accused you of lying about your randori levels (probably because with the class you have displayed so far they don't want to drive you away). Anyway, you don't have to post anything, but it would sure drop some peoples jaw if you did.
:EWBTE2::staredad:

What are they skeptical of exactly?

**Lindz** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:58pm

Do you train where in an unscripted situation each guy tries to throw the other while trying to not get thrown?

**pokeroo** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:58pm

Originally Posted by RRWAA

What are they skeptical of exactly?

When it comes to ninjas, usually there is a lot of skepticism about claims of training with resistance or sparring. The main reason is everyone including myself who has trained has been told to generally avoid "hard sparring" because the techniques are too dangerous, or in some cases deadly, and someone could get hurt. This is an obvious one for some of the real dirty techniques or bone/joint breaking ones, but you generally don't see any sparring.

I must admit I would be interested to see as well something that resembles the resistance of equivalent to what a Judoka might train if he or she were going to compete soon and wanted their partner to fully resist being thrown and completely try and throw them.

**pokeroo** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 2:59pm

Originally Posted by Lindz

Do you train where in an unscripted situation each guy tries to throw the other while trying to not get thrown?

What he said.

**RRWAA** · Posted On: 6/17/2011 3:00pm

Originally Posted by yli

How so? When properly used, they can be a great training asset.

Yes I agree they sure can be, that is why I said double edged. pro and con. The con is that with ANY protection, injury is less likely to happen. traditional techniques are designed to cause injury and you cannot train that other than in kata. let me explain...

Attacks to eyes, groin or with weapons etc. Will cause a severe injury and in truth will have some sort of effect. The attacker will react somehow, if they don't your in big trouble! LOL! In a kata we can "act out" the effect of those so called "x-rated" techniques and then follow up with the logical flow. This type of training is what will "probably" happen if the technique were carried out.

BUT

it IS ACTING, and therefore there is always doubt because , "what if"?

In comes drills and sparring etc...

Now we make harder contact and things get more free, but we protect ourselves so we don't get hurt and with that protection comes un-realism.

let me explain that, if you really did land something to the eys, or a solid groin kick for example, the attacker would at the very least pause! If you pad that up the pain goes away the INJURY goes away and he will go right through it. So that is not real and you can change training that WOULD work for real because of a training method...

Does this make sense?

Sparring is good for ring sports because it almost is exactly what you will do in the ring! but it is only a limited tool for street defense because of all the things you cannot do in sparring that you CAN do in the street!

you need a multi level training curriculum, (in my opinion for what i do) kata, drills ad randori, scenario training, bag and pad work etc...

The only thing REAL is REAL! And all we can do is approach it from various angles each training method having a pro and a con..

That's just my opinion...

Best,

-Rick