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  1. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 1:53am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The bar is low when you start calling anything that uke reacts to tori as randori. That being said, Aikido has randori too, and I'm willing to bet it's no more realistic than the bujinkan stuff (the booj randori is probably better, actually).

    Just another example of randori not being randori.

    Typically, when randori is mentioned, we tend to think of Judo randori - since it perfectly epitomises a mutual struggle.

    Calling anything else randori looks like an attempt to claim some Judo prestige.
    Last edited by Colin; 6/18/2011 1:57am at . Reason: typo
  2. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 1:54am


     Style: mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RRWAA View Post
    So please explain how my standards are low? I find it a very odd statement you do not know anything about me really or our training and you say that... I'll await your reply...
    You misunderstand. He means the bar that is set for you by other ninjas that have visited the site. He wasn't referring to your own standards.
  3. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RRWAA View Post
    Are you saying that's what I am doing?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by RRWAA View Post
    And the bar is low how?
    Because all the ninjas that came before you set it there.

    Quote Originally Posted by RRWAA View Post
    And I have a wonderful idea! Would YOU please show mean video of YOU or YOUR students somehow doing more "hard core" sparring? Thank you...
    There are no videos of me sparring and I don't teach. But I can show you some videos of other people at my judo club doing stuff.

  4. RRWAA is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:08am

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     Style: Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    The bar is low when you start calling anything that uke reacts to tori as randori. That being said, Aikido has randori too, and I'm willing to bet it's no more realistic than the bujinkan stuff (the booj randori is probably better, actually).

    Just another example of randori not being randori.

    Typically, when randori is mentioned, we tend to think of Judo randori - since it perfectly epitomises a mutual struggle.

    Calling anything else randori looks like an attempt to claim some Judo prestige.
    Ohh you have an attachment to the name? Ahh.. well Let's set some things straight, ok? First I speak japanese, not amazing well, but I do. I have student who took Japanese for years in collage, I have trained with actual JAPANESE teachers and have spoken to them for hours and hours on the topic of randori. Bujinkan and NON-Bujinkan.

    To think that randori is a Judo thing,(yes I know you said Aikido has it etc...) and to thing that Randori is full out sparring, shows that you do NOT understand the word as it is used by actual Japanese people. Especially those that practice Traditional Japanese martial Arts.

    It I would say is your lack of understanding to the true meaning and usage of the word, "maybe" an attachment to certain arts you favor and an obvious aversion and bias toward anything Bujinkan or "N-word" It "appears" you have an axe to grind..

    What does puzzle me however is that I provided a CLEAR example of actual ninpo students actually sparring no one giving anyone anything and do you just ignore that? I'll post once again for you and see if that example is somehow still not in any way sparring. Ok?

  5. RRWAA is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:13am

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     Style: Taijutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    No


    Because all the ninjas that came before you set it there.



    There are no videos of me sparring and I don't teach. But I can show you some videos of other people at my judo club doing stuff.

    I REALLY appreciate that you posted that video. On one hand it really is irrelevant as it is YOU that is doing the talking and I really would want to see YOUR skill level that must be way better than my students from the sound of it. But I AM glad you posted it, because I am not impressed at all... There is noting very spectacular there at all.. I think even in the simple videos I have posted it shows my students going harder...

    These guys are almost taking turns! To think this is somehow harder core than what I have shown is beyond me... Thanks for posting!
  6. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:16am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What does an individual's skill level have to do with a discussion about training methods?
  7. The Juggernoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:18am


     Style: 'Grapplin'

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    What does an individual's skill level have to do with a discussion about training methods?
    Got to agree there. Dont have to be a top notch fighter to make a Grade A coach/instructor.
  8. Colin is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:35am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RRWAA View Post
    It I would say is your lack of understanding to the true meaning and usage of the word, "maybe" an attachment to certain arts you favor and an obvious aversion and bias toward anything Bujinkan or "N-word" It "appears" you have an axe to grind..
    We're not in Japan, dickwad. We are on the internet, speaking english, in a forum for english speakers - Google the word randori and see how many of those hits are Judo.

    I'm not saying that booj randori is not randori according to a japanese cultural expression of the word.

    I'm saying that if you're talking about randori on this forum, owing to the VERY large number of judo, jujutsu, and aikido practitioners here, we're not expecting you to attach the word bujinkan.

    That being said - who cares what is called, really? That's a semantic argument with no winner or loser.

    For what it's worth, I think your contributions have been pretty valuable, but I'm still not going to call what they are doing 'randori' even if they call it that.
  9. RRWAA is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:38am

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     Style: Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, this was posted by LINDZ as an example of "actual" randori. Not like the silly "ninja-wannabe-larping" "randori" that we do... Please look at the video and remember these people do JUDO, all their training is JUDO it is what they do. They should be VERY good at it because it is all they do right? Lets look..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T57xC...embedded#at=79

    Ok now some videos of my students you will see 9th kyus, 4th kyus and a third kyu. In our Dojo 3rd kyu is at LEAST two years from black belt btw... Our students divide their time training with striking, throwing, groundfighting, a long list of traditional japanese weapons, sword, kata, individual technique practice, cultural study, environmental training and scenario training and other things. The POINT is that throwing is NOT all they study, but just a SMALL section. Compare their skill (and as is said in the videos they are going easy and it's NOT full out randori) and then look at the pros above, and tell me there is a huge gap in what we do and what you see here...

    First video is LIMITED sparring (we do this to focus on specific tools, we do all in as well of course) It is jab, cross, front kick. I know the Judo people above are not allowed to punch, but still we will start with this one... Please NOTICE no one is "giving anyone anything, no one is holding their arm out etc...



    Jab VS jab etc.. again, Please NOTICE no one is "giving anyone anything, no one is holding their arm out etc...



    Some throwing LEVEL 1 Randori looks pretty much like the Judo video above in terms of "intensity" and while I am not thrilled with some of the throws I seen again this is a small part of what they do and it still is VERY close to the "correct-Judo-Randori" above..



    Lets start with that.. :)
  10. RRWAA is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2011 2:43am

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     Style: Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    What does an individual's skill level have to do with a discussion about training methods?
    I have trained since 1972, I have taught since 1991. My experience is pretty vast. When I am being told by someone how what we are doing isn't good or wrong or whatever, I like to know what THAT person is capable of. It is easy to sit behind a keyboard and say whatever you want, but if your going to put down me, my art and my students, you need to show me something.. But either way, show me or not is showing me, thanks..
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