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  1. BearHammer is offline

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Northern VA
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    119

    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 12:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo, MT, KM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I love this move. I almost submitted a black belt the other week with this. He slipped out of my RNC as I couldn't get the nelson though. Too bad I hadn't incorporated gable grip in my arsenal at that point. In newaza I haven't really used the knee on the back too much however. I just plant my knee beside uke's, grab collar and belt and rip him. It must not be commonly used because the reaction is usually one of surprise. I find it easier than the Traineau roll mentioned by Judoka_UK since you don't have to fight to get a grip under uke on the opposite lapel.

    Much more difficult for me is the Iaskevitch and Neil Adams rolls I found on Judoka_UK's blog. I have yet to actually roll someone over with these moves yet. Also I tend to headbutt the mat when attempting to attack with this using any kind of speed. Needs more practice I guess.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 12:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BearHammer View Post
    I find it easier than the Traineau roll mentioned by Judoka_UK since you don't have to fight to get a grip under uke on the opposite lapel.
    You can always start on say, the left hand side, grip the near lapel and then circle around to their right and cup the bicep. Is slower and they can move away or get an inkling what's going on, but its still doable.


    Quote Originally Posted by BearHammer View Post
    Much more difficult for me is the Iaskevitch and Neil Adams rolls I found on Judoka_UK's blog. I have yet to actually roll someone over with these moves yet. Also I tend to headbutt the mat when attempting to attack with this using any kind of speed. Needs more practice I guess.
    My head often hurts afterwards, especially doing it lots and at speed. Its probably a 'good' thing you've got a bit of a headache, because it shows you're committing to going over. A big issue is people put their hand down to post and then puss out putting their head on the mat firmly and really using it to ensure weight and pressure is on uke.
  3. Team Python is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2010
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    Indio, Ca.
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    315

    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 12:48pm


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BearHammer View Post
    I love this move. I almost submitted a black belt the other week with this. He slipped out of my RNC as I couldn't get the nelson though. Too bad I hadn't incorporated gable grip in my arsenal at that point. In newaza I haven't really used the knee on the back too much however. I just plant my knee beside uke's, grab collar and belt and rip him. It must not be commonly used because the reaction is usually one of surprise. I find it easier than the Traineau roll mentioned by Judoka_UK since you don't have to fight to get a grip under uke on the opposite lapel.

    Much more difficult for me is the Iaskevitch and Neil Adams rolls I found on Judoka_UK's blog. I have yet to actually roll someone over with these moves yet. Also I tend to headbutt the mat when attempting to attack with this using any kind of speed. Needs more practice I guess.

    Yeah the knee on back is used to distract your opponent while you get the grips in place. I am glad it works for you.
  4. Coach Josh is offline
    Coach Josh's Avatar

    Silent Guardian

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    2,184

    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 12:52pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can teach turtle attacks for hours. Tim and I go round and round on which way is the best. I stick to turnovers and submission attempts to play top and not back control.

    As Ben said the double lapel control is great. Juji from there is awesome, triangles are there like no bodies business, collar chokes, leg locks and my personal favorite the gut wrench which I use of the spazzes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk please ignore typos.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  5. BearHammer is offline

    Lightweight

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    Aug 2011
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    Northern VA
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 2:53pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo, MT, KM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    You can always start on say, the left hand side, grip the near lapel and then circle around to their right and cup the bicep. Is slower and they can move away or get an inkling what's going on, but its still doable.


    My head often hurts afterwards, especially doing it lots and at speed. Its probably a 'good' thing you've got a bit of a headache, because it shows you're committing to going over. A big issue is people put their hand down to post and then puss out putting their head on the mat firmly and really using it to ensure weight and pressure is on uke.
    I still try to practice this one as well. I'd hate to be one dimensional. So are you saying that gripping the far lapel is not needed? i.e. left hand on left lapel works just as well?

    Nice to know this is a common event. I hope to get better at it as I practice more. Might even lend itself to improving my headspin when breakdancing :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Python View Post
    Yeah the knee on back is used to distract your opponent while you get the grips in place. I am glad it works for you.
    I'll definitely keep in mind the use of the knee for distraction purposes. I can see how it could be useful in keeping uke guessing, especially with my limited number of moves.
  6. Lindz is online now

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 3:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    my personal favorite the gut wrench which I use of the spazzes.
    What's the point of a gut wrench? You end up in the same position you started in and there are no back exposure points in judo.
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Senior Member

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    England
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 3:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BearHammer View Post
    I still try to practice this one as well. I'd hate to be one dimensional. So are you saying that gripping the far lapel is not needed? i.e. left hand on left lapel works just as well?
    No I meant start on one side, T= tori, U= uke

    And grip their near side lapel with your far side hand, in this case their right lapel with your right hand





    Then, keeping the grip, scoot round their arse



    Making sure you keep low and keep your weight on their hips, staying in the 'green zone'



    Which gets you to this position with the arm over the back



    Keeping the collar grip, catch the bicep as you come around



    And then just roll...
  8. Team Python is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 3:37pm


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    What's the point of a gut wrench? You end up in the same position you started in and there are no back exposure points in judo.

    I think he means by getting the gutwrench you control your opponent's center point and then you roll over on to your back and place the hooks in. The only thing about the gutwrnech and the chest squeeze is you leave your self open for your opponent gaining control of your arms near the elbows and wrists
    Last edited by Team Python; 10/13/2011 3:41pm at .
  9. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 3:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Python View Post
    I think he means by getting the gutwrench you control your opponent's center point and then you roll over on to your back and place the hooks in. The only thing about the gutwrnech and the chest squeeze is you leave your self open for your opponent gaining control of your arms near the elbows and wrists
    I don't use the gut wrench personally or teach it, but the Judo version that Josh refers to uses the jacket, and you end up on top. The earliest reference to it I've ever hear was that Leo White "invented" it, or at least made it visible in Judo.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
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    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2011 3:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For you judo guys struggling with the rolling arm bar thing, pick one and stick with it a while, one of the simpler ones, then when you get that one down pretty well, work on more complicated ones if you want, even better, work on how to react to uke defensive reactions to your initial attacks.

    I know a lot of turtle attacks, but in the end success for me began with getting good at one or two things and chaining together responses to uke defenses.

    They can't defend everything at once.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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