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  1. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 6:25am


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can perform techniques with okay form when my opponent lets me from a static position but in randori it's a completely different thing, whaddafack do I pull, when do I throw, and my biggest wonder: what do is unbalance how it does is do?!?!?!

    Kids up to 14 get into the team pretty easy but most of the adults(?) like me never get in and end up quitting, but new guys keep coming in...

    And I can't throw anybody my size or bigger so I ain't going anywhere.

    When I tell my coach I'm **** he says I should do strength training, which I have been for a while, my squat is up to 150 pounds from an empty bar (I'm 160) but I wonder if strength is what I need.

    I'm in okay shape I can run for a mile, I'm very flexible due to endless stretching from my Aikido days (side splits), I can do like 40 pushups in a row and infinite situps, and I think I can break a fall off a house now.

    My coach likes me and asks me to teach new people throws and falls, he jokes about paying me a salary as an assistant.

    Maybe if I train harder I can get a throw off. But I need to be SUPAFAST and SUPAQUIK all at the same time, which is hard.

    I also have trouble committing to attacks because I almost got my knee torn right the **** off when I tried to Seoi Nage a big strong guy 100 kilos or something who picked me up and slammed me on the ground in an attempt to Tani Otoshi which we've been taught once or twice, and my knee got stuck under him and ****...

    No other clubs in the area! There is one but it's how do I say it...financially infeasible.

    I'll just be patient and train hard, good things come to those who wait and ****, right?

    Right?

    Rant over. I think.
  2. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 9:48am


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll defer to the advanced guys, but it seems to me that standup Judo is more about gripping and movement patterns than the actual throws. You can't throw them in randori unless you get the gripping and the movement right, combined with the right timing. If you get that, the throws will happen (obviously, you have to know and do the throws correctly) Take a look at Judoka UK's various threads. Lots of good things happen if you move and attack with ouchi, ko uchi, sasae, etc. Make him move enough and you'll be able to throw him, especially if you're a fit, strong guy.
  3. judojeff is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 1:37pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    You can't throw them in randori unless you get the gripping and the movement right, combined with the right timing. If you get that, the throws will happen (obviously, you have to know and do the throws correctly) Lots of good things happen if you move and attack with ouchi, ko uchi, sasae, etc. Make him move enough and you'll be able to throw him.
    I have been thinking about this recently, my epiphany came when reading the thread over in the rupture section on Jon Jones elbows. The set up for the technique is just as important as the technique itself. For judo I think this would mean that having a proper grip and making the opponent move into your throw. Also I have been having luck with doing throws in pairs during randori. Stuff like uchimata to tai otoshi or Ouchi gari depending on there reaction.

    Mister how long have you been doing judo? I'm two and a half years in and things are just starting to come together for me throwing wise, but then I am a slow learner. Maybe you just a need a bit more experience before it all starts to click?
  4. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 2:17pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I'll defer to the advanced guys, but it seems to me that standup Judo is more about gripping and movement patterns than the actual throws. You can't throw them in randori unless you get the gripping and the movement right, combined with the right timing. If you get that, the throws will happen (obviously, you have to know and do the throws correctly) Take a look at Judoka UK's various threads. Lots of good things happen if you move and attack with ouchi, ko uchi, sasae, etc. Make him move enough and you'll be able to throw him, especially if you're a fit, strong guy.
    I read most of Judoka's blog it's good stuff it's all great on paper but when it comes to implementing **** I am lacking. I try to wait for my opponent to step in and all that but maybe there's something I'm doing wrong, maybe I seem weak because I'm too relaxed during randori, my coach doesn't give me much advice his only advice for me was to lift more weights. He's a major power lifter I saw him bench 270 kilos.

    Quote Originally Posted by judojeff View Post
    I have been thinking about this recently, my epiphany came when reading the thread over in the rupture section on Jon Jones elbows. The set up for the technique is just as important as the technique itself. For judo I think this would mean that having a proper grip and making the opponent move into your throw. Also I have been having luck with doing throws in pairs during randori. Stuff like uchimata to tai otoshi or Ouchi gari depending on there reaction.

    Mister how long have you been doing judo? I'm two and a half years in and things are just starting to come together for me throwing wise, but then I am a slow learner. Maybe you just a need a bit more experience before it all starts to click?
    We skip grip fighting altogether and just go in for the standard sleeve lapel grips, cause we don't know **** else about grips.

    I've been doing Judo for almost a year, maybe you're right mate, I just got home from a Judo session tonight and I only managed to pull off a pitiful Tani Otoshi in the entire thing, but I've been thrown with an O Goshi by a guy my size and weight who's only been around for 4 months, sure it wasn't that good but a throw is a throw.

    He's also not as strong or as fit as I am, I can run longer, sprint faster, jump higher, lift more, and I'm much more flexible...

    Seems to me like everyone's getting better except for me.

    I'm always the only guy who stays after training, who does extra reps, who makes sure he has proper form on all exercises, the guys even call me a sadist in the training hall cause I never skip a training session and I do everything by the book.

    **** man but nothing's working for me.
  5. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 2:39pm


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think with only one year in judo you are geting way too wrapped up in this "problem". I also think that it is likely that your randori needs to be a little more give and take. If you are working with people who always shut you down, whether it is because of strength or because they are more skilled, then it is very hard to develop any feel for it. The very fact that your only success is with tani-otoshi bears this out. In our dojo it is banned for beginners' randori because people can never progress with their forward throws if they are constantly getting shut down every time they turn in (it's an easy counter for one beginner against another).

    If possible, go for randori with the instructors who (hopefully) will be letting you get the throw when you make a correct attack within your current limits. If they are also shutting you down completely, maybe it's time to look for another club.
  6. judojeff is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 2:47pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah I don't practice grip fighting much either, but I have found a few things that have worked for me from watching what guys better then me do and asking about it, I don't think grip fighting is a big issue, as long as you don't feel like you are being overly controlled then your probably ok, least at our level.

    At a year into my training I was not getting any real throws in either, frankly I am still not hitting them as good as I would like, I get blasted by the more advanced students and even some of the guys who have not been around as long as me catch me from time to time.

    It may not seem like it but you are getting better, with out knowing what really you struggle with I don't have much to tell except for just keep going to class. Judo can be frustrating but it is also real rewarding when something does click. That's what keeps me going.
  7. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 3:09pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    If possible, go for randori with the instructors who (hopefully) will be letting you get the throw when you make a correct attack within your current limits. If they are also shutting you down completely, maybe it's time to look for another club.
    I'll try this, I did randori twice with two different coaches man did they wipe the floor with me or what, but this sounds like a good idea I will give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by judojeff View Post
    At a year into my training I was not getting any real throws in either, frankly I am still not hitting them as good as I would like, I get blasted by the more advanced students and even some of the guys who have not been around as long as me catch me from time to time.

    It may not seem like it but you are getting better, with out knowing what really you struggle with I don't have much to tell except for just keep going to class. Judo can be frustrating but it is also real rewarding when something does click. That's what keeps me going.
    Maybe you're right mate, thanks.

    I appreciate all the help, thanks mates.

    Also, I understand that there's probably not much anyone can do for me across the internet, I was just ranting cause it's been frustrating lately.
  8. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2012 5:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    The club is great we have national champs but the class I'm in is a beginners only class...

    Most of the class is break falls, fitness stuff and randori, we're taught the techniques initially, I had to be shown what Ippon Seoi Nage is at first, but we never drill Uchikomi or anything like that, I personally have been given very little instruction during randori too.

    We just go at it for 5 or so rounds till we're beat, the only guys whom have gotten better were those who left the beginners class and sort of graduated to the team, or went to compete in tournaments, or those whom are big and strong so they don't really need much Judo.

    Even the choke I won some matches with (sometimes my coach simulates a match for us so we can learn the rules and ****) I saw on TV, don't even know what it's called I just wrap my arm around their neck and my legs around their waist and roll to the side when they turtle and apply pressure...

    Once every blue moon like the saying goes we do some Nagekomi.

    It sucks which made me go take some roman wrestling classes with Judo some of the **** is the same but I wonder...

    And it was there, mate, that I was taught Seoi Otoshi and we drilled it for hours, it worked like a charm in randori I was flipping guys left and right.

    But I'm not quitting Judo I love it even if I don't know anything.

    Any chance you can send a couple of Judo coaches to help me? Or just one...
    I have to admire your enthusiasm, mister. Cairo is a huge city, isn't there someplace you can go where they actually attempt to teach Judo. It sounds like your "club" is just looking for athletic talent to bump up to the "competition" team and screw everybody else.

    have you called these guys?
    Adress : El Bahary Stadium St, Egyptian Olympic Federations Complex , Cairo Stadium , Nasr City , Cairo , Egypt</SPAN>Phone : +202 22 63 43 67 / 24 03 65 48Fax : +202 22 63 85 55Mail : jfederation@yahoo.comPresident : Essam Rashad

    OK, i see you hae looked close by and the only other club is too expensive.
    Last edited by BKR; 4/30/2012 5:23am at . Reason: Should have read all posts first
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2012 5:32am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mister and JudoJeff, you guys have to realize that judo is not the easiest thing to learn, especially for adult beginners who both sound like you were not particularly athletic/coordinated to begin with.

    Mister, squatting 160 at a bodyweight of 150 sounds like a great improvement, but you can get a lot stronger than that. Strength training is good overall, so I suggest you continue to do so. Not sure how tall you are, but you sound like a small guy. I'm small too, 5'7" and 150 lbs, competed mostly at -65 kg and -66 kg. I was told by my coach to lift weights, and he was absolutely correct. The key factor was I was getting a lot of skill training by a competent sensei at the same time. But keep on lifting, it's good for you in any case.

    I suggest you try to find a like minded judoka in your class and stick together. Work on uchikomi and nage komi when you can, and when you do randori together, make it more cooperative, or just do nagekomi. That way you can get in maybe some more quality time instead of fighting for your lives the whole. You can expand that to others as well, the more the merrier. All out shiai style randori is not productive for beginners in my experience.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2012 5:37am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys at one year into judo seem to think you should not get blasted by advanced students/black belts? Keep on dreaming, if it keeps you training.

    I think with the kind of training that judoka_uk illustrates in his BLOG, a dedicated person who has reasonable coordination levels and lots of time to train can appear to have Ok judo after one year. But they won't be beating competent yudansha, except by fluke.

    And I don't mean flatfish.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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