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  1. Dave R. is offline

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    Jun 2009
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2011 3:04pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Wow, I'm surprised. Wait, maybe I'm not, I know a very well known club in the Pacific NW that teaches Seoi Otoshi to little kids. Just so they can have more success in shiai, as far as I can tell.
    Come to Florida some time....
  2. CaptainShodan is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bloomington, IL, USA
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    2

    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 4:40am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In most well completed Drop Seoinages I have watched, the torii doesn't simply drop to their knees and stay there-they actually continue to drive through the throw with their legs.

    I tend to think the Drop Seoninage, especially at a lower competitive level, is a weak excuse for a throw because there seems to be little skill in completing the throw.

    I watched a local tournament, where apprently the throw was a major teaching point in one of the competing dojos. So I watched while kids, around 8-12 years of age, were using the Drop Seoinage exclusively and it only "worked" (adding air quotes) once when the uke simply lost his balance while trying to step around the throw.

    And the form was simply taking a lapel grip on torii, turning, dropping to their knees, pulling, and hoping to God for the best. No use of Kuzushi or any other type of movement added to the "throw."
  3. Mister is offline

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    Cairo, Egypt
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 5:08pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, guys, guys, guys.

    I haven't scored Ippon with ANY throw in my entire life, except with a Seoi Otoshi once or twice that I'd learned from a wrestler.

    I thought I was getting better when I did...I've scored before using chokes and pins because my newaza is much better than my tachiwaza (my newaza ain't that good, it's just my tachiwaza that is holy **** bad) so the first time I did a throw and it actually worked I was ecstatic.

    Why is Seoi Otoshi considered ...cheap?

    Also is it pretentious to use Japanese terms for this ****?
  4. judoka_uk is offline
    judoka_uk's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 5:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Hey, guys, guys, guys.
    Steady the bucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Why is Seoi Otoshi considered ...cheap?
    Its not considered 'cheap' if done properly and skillfully. It is frowned upon for use by beginners on beginners, because poor beginner defensive skills can mean other beginners can get 'wins' in randori with it without ever developing any real skill. When they come to 1st kyu/ shodan all their 'Judo' stops working and they either quit or have to spend months-years re-learning Judo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Also is it pretentious to use Japanese terms for this ****?
    Dunno, depends what 'Disgusting floppy, droppy ****** technique' is in Arabic.
  5. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 5:29pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Steady the bucks.


    Its not considered 'cheap' if done properly and skillfully. It is frowned upon for use by beginners on beginners, because poor beginner defensive skills can mean other beginners can get 'wins' in randori with it without ever developing any real skill. When they come to 1st kyu/ shodan all their 'Judo' stops working and they either quit or have to spend months-years re-learning Judo.
    No wonder why it was the only technique that worked for me, this sucks lol and here I thought I've finally found a technique that I'm good at instead of stepping into people and have them push me back all the time...

    I never learn any Judo in my class it's all just randori, I actually learned how to do the flippy floppy ****** **** from a greco-roman wrestling coach who told me to basically grab the arm, pull it down and quickly drop between my opponent's legs and he ends up falling...

    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Dunno, depends what 'Disgusting floppy, droppy ****** technique' is in Arabic.
    You would be surprised at how hard it is to translate that into Arabic.

    Ahem, I take it I shouldn't do it anymore?
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 5:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    No wonder why it was the only technique that worked for me, this sucks lol and here I thought I've finally found a technique that I'm good at instead of stepping into people and have them push me back all the time...

    I never learn any Judo in my class it's all just randori, I actually learned how to do the flippy floppy ****** **** from a greco-roman wrestling coach who told me to basically grab the arm, pull it down and quickly drop between my opponent's legs and he ends up falling...
    You don't actually get taught how to do techniques? Is there another Judo club you can go to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    You would be surprised at how hard it is to translate that into Arabic.
    Not really, insults are always the hardest to translate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Ahem, I take it I shouldn't do it anymore?
    Depends, if you value short term 'wins' in randori over actually learning Judo then don't stop. If you want to learn Judo then put it to oneside, concentrate on standing Ippon Seoi and Morote Seoi and then return to drop Seoi at a later date say 1st kyu/ shodan.
  7. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 6:04pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    You don't actually get taught how to do techniques? Is there another Judo club you can go to?
    The club is great we have national champs but the class I'm in is a beginners only class...

    Most of the class is break falls, fitness stuff and randori, we're taught the techniques initially, I had to be shown what Ippon Seoi Nage is at first, but we never drill Uchikomi or anything like that, I personally have been given very little instruction during randori too.

    We just go at it for 5 or so rounds till we're beat, the only guys whom have gotten better were those who left the beginners class and sort of graduated to the team, or went to compete in tournaments, or those whom are big and strong so they don't really need much Judo.

    Even the choke I won some matches with (sometimes my coach simulates a match for us so we can learn the rules and ****) I saw on TV, don't even know what it's called I just wrap my arm around their neck and my legs around their waist and roll to the side when they turtle and apply pressure...

    Once every blue moon like the saying goes we do some Nagekomi.

    It sucks which made me go take some roman wrestling classes with Judo some of the **** is the same but I wonder...

    And it was there, mate, that I was taught Seoi Otoshi and we drilled it for hours, it worked like a charm in randori I was flipping guys left and right.

    But I'm not quitting Judo I love it even if I don't know anything.

    Any chance you can send a couple of Judo coaches to help me? Or just one...
  8. Res Judicata is offline

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    Sep 2006
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    1,633

    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 6:17pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mister's club sounds like the Lord of the Flies. He seems to love Judo, so that sucks. Can't one of the advanced ranks actually teach you proper Judo? My Judo is a half step above terrible, but coaching has been absolutely invaluable. I don't think you can learn it on your own unless you're amazingly gifted.
  9. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 6:48pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did some uchikomi with a brown belt after practice, after I let him throw me for like an hour he said: "Okay, what do you need?" sweet god I need a lot of judo but I told him to teach me how to do Harai Goshi, then he told me to use an overhand grip cause I'm tall, gave me some grip fighting lessons and taught me Harai Goshi and I trained on it a few times with him but I guess he didn't like to be thrown cause he made me shadow it...

    I did some randori with him after that and man did he mop the place with me, it's like I didn't know ****, oh a foot near mine! oh I'm going to trip on it, ****...

    I also train with another coach sometimes on o and ko uchi gari after my regular session, he teaches beginners (kids) Judo and he's a very nice guy but most of the time he has to go to his other job and doesn't have time for me.

    Dude I know the names of almost every throw and I can probably name them and perform them shittily from memory because I watched so many videos, that's how I climbed to the yonkyu rank (or equivalent, nobody knows what kyu is, I just have 6 belts out of 10 before black) but in reality I know sweeeeeeeeeet fuckall...

    Help me mates!

    Edit: Also Jugger I'm sorry for Hijacking your thread mate.
    Last edited by Mister; 4/25/2012 7:16pm at .
  10. ashkelon is offline

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    BXL
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 3:33am


     Style: Striking, grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you're 4th kyu and you don't learn technique?
    wtf, no other judo clubs around?
    seems like you should go to another club and come back to this one once you know the basics, bit absurd.
    how do people progress to the advanced group?
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