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  1. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2011 3:01pm


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
    I actually think this is an interesting topic.

    Same thing on the UFC and other televised MMA fights. The announcer will say "judo throw" or "boxing punch" or "Muy Thai knees." It's all a bit ridiculous to me.

    A punch is a punch. The only thing (to me) the various arts "own" is HOW they teach/apply the Principles they rely on. But those Principles are the same across every art.
    I don't think this takes into account just how different some arts are from one-another. A thai kick is very different to a TKD kick. A wing chun punch is different enough from a boxing punch that they probably ought to not to share the name "punch" at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
    Judo is a sport and requires a specific mindset. Whereas Aikido (for example) has an entirely different set of principles (not of motion or body mechanics, but of mind and philosophy) at its core.
    I can agree that Judo and Aikido usually have different mindsets, but Aikido technique is almost entirely motion and body mechanics. Usually to such an extreme as become caricature.


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  2. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2011 3:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I tried using karate for self defence once, I waxed on when waxing off was the prudent move, I paid for it dearly and haven't used karate since.
  3. FourT6and2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2011 3:38pm


     Style: Jujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    I don't think this takes into account just how different some arts are from one-another. A thai kick is very different to a TKD kick. A wing chun punch is different enough from a boxing punch that they probably ought to not to share the name "punch" at all.
    Yeah, I can agree to that.

    I can agree that Judo and Aikido usually have different mindsets, but Aikido technique is almost entirely motion and body mechanics. Usually to such an extreme as become caricature.
    I was merely saying that perhaps the thing that differentiates Technique X in Art A from Technique X in Art B is the "mindset" that the art teaches. But that's such a semantic non-real-world thing to focus on.
  4. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2011 5:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  5. chickenbox123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2011 9:38pm


     Style: Isshinryu Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've used my karate for self defense. well kinda, I was mugged and I had to get my money back. for some reason i was walking late at night in a sketchy part of town with a five dollar bill in my hand and this dude comes up and snatches it. I barely had time to react. He takes off sprinting, and I sprint after him. I easily caught up, but i was too fast and i clipped the back of his foot as he was running. that caused him to trip slightly and trhow the hand with the money in it behind it. I quickley seized the oppertunity and grabbed the arm, twisted it into and armbar i was tought, and threw him up against a fence that ran along side us. I applied pressure and was able to get him to realease the money. he just cursed me out and walked away. I wouldnt have een able to achieve what i achieved that day without my training. its not just the actual techniques, its the training. they teach you to react quickley in situations, and thats just what i did
  6. yli is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2011 10:19pm


     Style: Stabbing the Face.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenbox123 View Post
    I've used my karate for self defense. well kinda, I was mugged and I had to get my money back. for some reason i was walking late at night in a sketchy part of town with a five dollar bill in my hand and this dude comes up and snatches it. I barely had time to react. He takes off sprinting, and I sprint after him. I easily caught up, but i was too fast and i clipped the back of his foot as he was running. that caused him to trip slightly and trhow the hand with the money in it behind it. I quickley seized the oppertunity and grabbed the arm, twisted it into and armbar i was tought, and threw him up against a fence that ran along side us. I applied pressure and was able to get him to realease the money. he just cursed me out and walked away. I wouldnt have een able to achieve what i achieved that day without my training. its not just the actual techniques, its the training. they teach you to react quickley in situations, and thats just what i did
    I don't practice a Japanese art, so normally I would never comment here. However, your post was so fucking stupid, you just trolled me into saying something.

    Let's see how many things are wrong with this story (assuming that it's true):

    1.) You're walking (alone I presume), late at night, in a sketchy part of town.

    2.) You had a $5 bill in your hand.

    3.) Someone steals the money (that you pretty much offered him)

    There are a number of other incredibly stupid and wrong things in that post, starting with you chasing around an unknown thief over $5 (that you had in your hand).

    I'll let someone else comment on those.
  7. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2011 11:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by yli View Post
    I don't practice a Japanese art, so normally I would never comment here. However, your post was so fucking stupid, you just trolled me into saying something.

    Let's see how many things are wrong with this story (assuming that it's true):

    1.) You're walking (alone I presume), late at night, in a sketchy part of town.

    2.) You had a $5 bill in your hand.

    3.) Someone steals the money (that you pretty much offered him)

    There are a number of other incredibly stupid and wrong things in that post, starting with you chasing around an unknown thief over $5 (that you had in your hand).

    I'll let someone else comment on those.
    Now now, there's no need to be harsh. I'm sure that chickenbox123 is a worthy individual with that of God within, just like everyone.

    I'll sucker:
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  8. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2011 12:37am


     Style: BJJ/MT

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    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan View Post
    Pimp down! Pimp down!

    On a more serious note, yes, I have used karate to successfully defend myself on more than one occasion with one caveat; as long as you consider American Ke?po Karate as karate. It worked for me on three non-ridiculous occasions, twice as a bouncer and once at a large camping event when my campfire was one of the last few burning and random drunk/stoned/high/tripping campers are the norm to come join a still-burning campfire.
  9. Mr. Fluffers is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2011 6:22am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kashima Shinryu

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    Quote Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
    I was merely saying that perhaps the thing that differentiates Technique X in Art A from Technique X in Art B is the "mindset" that the art teaches. But that's such a semantic non-real-world thing to focus on.
    A pretty decent example of how there is a difference, even in seemingly similar techniques, is kotegaeshi. You've got the big circley Aikido kotegaeshi, the kotegaeshi from judo that's a little smaller, Kashima-Shinryu's kotegaeshi which involves just yanking the other dude's hand sideways, and some of the other other, meaner variants from some koryu that involve, say, turning the guy's hand sideways and then slamming it with your fist or.. well, I've seen some really weird ones. Anyway, these techniques not only work differently, some counters just don't work on them that work fine on the others. And they're all "kotegaeshi". Form and mindset are inseparable, I think.
  10. FourT6and2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2011 7:44am


     Style: Jujutsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Fluffers View Post
    A pretty decent example of how there is a difference, even in seemingly similar techniques, is kotegaeshi. You've got the big circley Aikido kotegaeshi, the kotegaeshi from judo that's a little smaller, Kashima-Shinryu's kotegaeshi which involves just yanking the other dude's hand sideways, and some of the other other, meaner variants from some koryu that involve, say, turning the guy's hand sideways and then slamming it with your fist or.. well, I've seen some really weird ones. Anyway, these techniques not only work differently, some counters just don't work on them that work fine on the others. And they're all "kotegaeshi". Form and mindset are inseparable, I think.
    What you are talking about is how different arts apply the same principles to execute the same technique. This is the crux of what sets the curriculum apart in all the arts. The physiokinetic principles of how the body operates do not change. Ever. They are constants. Physics. Laws. What changes is how each art chooses to apply those principles, in action.

    That's why you see Kotegaeshi done one way in one art, and done another way in another art. It's still Kotegaeshi. But maybe one system relies on triangulation, while another relies on pain-compliance.

    But that's not what I was really talking about in my previous posts.

    Pretend for a moment that two different arts do a technique the exact same way. What makes that technique Art A in that system and Art B in the other? I was saying that perhaps it's the mindset/philosophy of the art, itself, that is the differentiator. For example, in Judo the goal is to throw the opponent and score a point. It's a game (most of the time). Whereas in Crazy Combat Jutsu Ryu, the goal is to survive or maim your opponent.

    But again, that's an argument based in semantics.

    Another idea is taken from an article I read somewhere:

    Something like: "Show me your attack and I'll show you your art."

    It was about how every system trains off of set pretend scenarios and attacks. i.e. before we can do a kotegaeshi, our Uke must first attack us. And every art dictates our attacker to attack us in a certain way. And it's interesting to see how all the different arts teach their students to attack one another in the dojo to facilitate learning/training.
    Last edited by FourT6and2; 6/25/2011 7:48am at .
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