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  1. PXM is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 7:41am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Stick, sword and knife fighting.

    I was wondering about any martial arts that would train stick, knife and sword fighting in an alive manner.

    The only martial arts that I know of that focus on weapons are Kendo, as well as FMA like Kali and Escrima.

    I've seen a few of the Dog Brothers videos and it looks like stacks of fun and definitely is alive, but it doesn't seem like they are an organisation actively involved in training the arts they practise.

    What's the deal with them, is it more like they just have gatherings for people who find their weapons training elsewhere looking to test their mettle?

    How would one go about finding a respectable gym for alive weapons training? I mean, for unarmed combat sports there's Judo, BJJ, MT and the like, but what about other stuff?

    Thanks. If it helps, I'm from Melbourne, Australia.

    From a quick google, this is the best looking Kendo site.
    http://www.melbournebudokai.com.au/

    And here's a Kali one
    http://aimacademy.com.au/classes/fil...ima-kali-arnis

    But I'm not sure what to look for in places like this.

    Thanks in advance.
  2. stealth_monkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 7:57am


     Style: Kendo, Iaido, BJJ noob

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    I can only comment on Kendo. In terms of looking for a good school, kendo is extremely centralised. Go to the victorian kendo renmei website (http://www.kendovictoria.asn.au/). Any kendo school listed there will be good. Any not listed will most likely be terrible.

    However, I'm not sure kendo will be what you're looking for. Kendo has had many modifications made to it for both safety and balance as a sport. If you're looking to learn how to use a sword "for real", you're about 400 years too late. Given that you can't exactly find out what works "on the streets" anymore, any style of sword art is going to be a best guess, usually passed down verbally, and changed significantly since the founding of the school.
  3. PXM is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 8:16am


     

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    Thanks man. I don't think I am under any illusions about how swordsmanship has been lost. After all we have guns now.

    As for what kind of Kendo I am looking for, I'm not sure. I'm sure with modern day smarts it's possible to have some kind of alive training with swords. Gotta prepare for the zombie apocalypse somehow.

    In all seriousness, swordfighting is just something I find really interesting, and it's hard to enjoy alive training in arts like BJJ and then end up in a severly LARPtastic kenjutsu school.

    And Kendo over something like fencing, I've seen a few vids and there is something about the footwork in fencing that just looks weird. Like really linear?

    Well thanks for the reply.
  4. stealth_monkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 8:24am


     Style: Kendo, Iaido, BJJ noob

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    Quote Originally Posted by PXM View Post
    Thanks man. I don't think I am under any illusions about how swordsmanship has been lost. After all we have guns now.

    As for what kind of Kendo I am looking for, I'm not sure. I'm sure with modern day smarts it's possible to have some kind of alive training with swords. Gotta prepare for the zombie apocalypse somehow.

    In all seriousness, swordfighting is just something I find really interesting, and it's hard to enjoy alive training in arts like BJJ and then end up in a severly LARPtastic kenjutsu school.

    And Kendo over something like fencing, I've seen a few vids and there is something about the footwork in fencing that just looks weird. Like really linear?

    Well thanks for the reply.
    No worries, in that case, you'll have plenty of fun in Kendo. As a rule, there's only one kind of kendo. Like bjj, you can pretty much walk into any school and see the same thing. The problem happens when you visit shady schools who aren't affiliated with anyone and just make something up and call it a more popular style.

    It's a massive oversimplification, but avoid any schools advertising themselves as anything except iaido or kendo. Anything sword-related with jutsu or shin anywhere in the name tends to be pretty bad.
  5. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 9:30am


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

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    PXM;

    Any WMA/HEMA schools in your area? Worth investingating to see if they meet your criteria.
  6. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 12:15pm


     Style: Kempo

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealth_monkey View Post
    It's a massive oversimplification, but avoid any schools advertising themselves as anything except iaido or kendo. Anything sword-related with jutsu or shin anywhere in the name tends to be pretty bad.
    I would tend to agree , with the exception that in certain locales there are some good Iai-Jutsu and Kenjutsu instructors about , they tend to stay in the background it seems though. A good place to get a lead on such instruction is sometimes a local Aikijujujutsu or Aikido dojo or traditional Jujutsu schools , I'd agree with you that the places with a shingle out front screaming about it all are usually worth a walk on by and not much else.

    The Dog Bros organisation does teach , but for what it's worth there are quite an amount of FMA instructors around , pick one and get the angles and disarms down and then change the training method from there if it's not 'alive' enough , a couple of other ways to go that way might be Caballe's Serrada and the Inayan stuff down from him , those two systems and Presas's Modern Arnis are argueably the most common , there are a great many others around if one looks.You might look for someone who came through Inosanto , they're often quite relaible though it's rare to meet someone of that lineage who concentrates solely upon the stick and blade aspects.

    Oddly enough there seems to be less phnymster bullshit with the FMAs , that however is an anecdotal observation so might not be indicative overall ,lack of skill shows up fairly quick with a stick in the hand , and the movement and the *flow* of an individual who really knows what they're doing is pretty obvious.

    As for fun factor , though I know f-all of value about Kendo , but it rather seems that viewed from an outside perspective it might well be the most entertaining of 'em all , dress up in armor and whack each other with a shinai ( yeah yeah too simplistic but y'all get my drift)...I mean whats not too like.

    Since I'm rambling , an interesting side observation , when I've gone to the Obon Festival and watched the demos , the Shotokan crowd is strictly business , not a smile to be had , the Aikidoka are just flat out grim , the Kendo folks and the Judo people though , they're having a ball.

    Yeah yeah I know , I'm looking at it wrong , it's not supposed to be " fun" , it's supposed to be all grim and serious and super deadly and all that rot , but at my age , frankly the hell with that , it just looks as if it would be entertaining.
  7. Jazzman is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 12:32pm


     Style: Kempo

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    Quote Originally Posted by PXM View Post
    Thanks man. I don't think I am under any illusions about how swordsmanship has been lost. After all we have guns now.

    As for what kind of Kendo I am looking for, I'm not sure. I'm sure with modern day smarts it's possible to have some kind of alive training with swords. Gotta prepare for the zombie apocalypse somehow.

    And Kendo over something like fencing, I've seen a few vids and there is something about the footwork in fencing that just looks weird. Like really linear?

    Well thanks for the reply.

    Depends on what you're used to , the most overused comparison being the one of B.Lee coming forward with or off the lead hand , check the back foot and leg position and compare it to a a fencers lunge with a foil , and I've heard folks make a good case for the jab being descended from fencing movements , given the time period involved it does seem plausible. As regards the , linear footwork , perhaps in the modern context it's necause they compete along a straight line?

    I dunno , I know as much about Fencing as I do Kendo , which is to say sod-all , but it's highly interesting. Might be nice if someone who knows the rules etc could speak up and inform us about them.
  8. Naszir is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 6:17pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo, SAMBO

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    OP, as far as Kali/Escrima/Arnis are concerned you may want to post in the traditional arts forum here. As for WMA/HEMA you may wish to post for suggestions here. These two fora may be able to point you n the right direction.
  9. PXM is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2011 8:32pm


     

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    Thanks Nazjir. I didn't want to put two separate threads with similar questions out that's all. Would there be a problem making threads in three sub forums? As long as I divide the topic into only the parts that relate to that area.

    Any WMA/HEMA schools in your area? Worth investingating to see if they meet your criteria.
    A quick google revealed no HEMA places, and since I assume you mean western martial arts by WMA, and not some organisation, the only options are likely to be fencing.
  10. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/12/2011 9:48am


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

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    Quote Originally Posted by PXM View Post
    A quick google revealed no HEMA places, and since I assume you mean western martial arts by WMA, and not some organisation, the only options are likely to be fencing.
    Well, remember GIGO about Googling. There may be someone who doesn't have a strong online presence. As suggested, you might want to post in the Traditional Forums WMA sub-forum to see if anyone there can network you to an instructor.

    However, I do think your best bets are FMA.
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