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  1. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2011 2:47pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Fake Certificates

    I want to draw people's attention to this outfit:

    http://www.fittoprintstore.com/main.sc

    Not only do they offer fake martial arts certificates; some of the blank certificates offered look like straightforward forgeries. Here, for example, is what purports to be a Japan Karate Association Certificate signed by Nakahara Nobuyuki and Sugiura Motokuni:

    http://www.fittoprintstore.com/image...ATE%20ASSN.jpg

    Here is a Goju certificate supposedly signed by Yamaguchi Gogen:

    http://www.fittoprintstore.com/images/yamaguchi.jpg

    Surely this is more than just dodgy: it's criminal fraud, isn't it? Has anyone else come across this?

    OK: so they're "replacement" certificates because the original got eaten by the dog (and the original awarding organization won't replace it?) - and that's not illegal. I've a mind to buy one of these offerings, just to see what they do to check out that I'm actually entitled to a certificate signed by Yamaguchi Gogen!

    Maybe the real organizations should be alerted to this?
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/08/2011 3:27pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, they actually came up in another thread because of a Military fraudster.
  3. kitkatninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2011 1:18am


     Style: TSD, Karate & Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Or can you imagine a not-so-reputable school, "grading" students then giving them these?

    -Ken
  4. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2011 5:49pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Giving out certificates "signed" by somebody who never actually signed them just has to be a criminal offense. It's just plain forgery, surely. How can it be stopped? And, yes, the guy is selling fake certs of military service too, which is even worse. I can't find where he's operating out of, but it ought to be possible to get him kicked off of Ebay.
    Last edited by HenryT; 6/09/2011 5:53pm at .
  5. The Juggernoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2011 7:26pm


     Style: 'Grapplin'

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryT View Post
    Giving out certificates "signed" by somebody who never actually signed them just has to be a criminal offense. It's just plain forgery, surely. How can it be stopped? And, yes, the guy is selling fake certs of military service too, which is even worse. I can't find where he's operating out of, but it ought to be possible to get him kicked off of Ebay.
    I think if you can prove he's selling them to people who are using them as serious items of credibility , then yes, you can have his balls in any which way you want them. Just expect a lot of leg work.
  6. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2011 11:11pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, which state are these guys operating in?

    Any criminal fraud claim would have to be analysed in terms of state law. I would also like to know what the translations actually say. Especially the one which does not require a signature. Does it have a name of someone who is being awarded the certificate? (Don't laugh, that's how we caught one forger, he used a certificate which when translated, indicated it belonged to someone else.)

    unless the person whose signatures appear on those certificates provided permission to the store to reprint them on certificates to be sold, then it appears that they may be possibly misappropriating the name and signatures of a martial arts organization that has not given them permission to use their trademarks or copyrights.

    Obviously if the reproduction was done for historical purposes, then there would be no allegation of fraud or forgery, however reproduction to enable someone to claim an office, rank or distinction that they can then use for commercial purposes when they have no permission to do so is potentially a crime or civil tort.
    Last edited by Sam Browning; 6/09/2011 11:16pm at .
  7. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2011 1:35am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Q: can you fill this in or will it come blank
    A: I fill in it and put on the gold foil stamp and ribbons. I have many, many more in my webstore: www.fitToPrintStore.com thanks! Roger
    Feb 10, 2011
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

    I will personalize this with your name, rank, unit and the date. Within three days you must email me at or send a message through eBay's message center, or add the info in the notes section when you make your PayPal payment. If I do not hear from you within 3 days, I may send your items(s) blank.

    eBay no longer allows sale of any military medals or certificates relating to medals. You'll have to go to my website to purchase those. IMPORTANT: eBay has strict guidelines on what can and cannot be listed. Consult their "Government documents, IDs, and licenses policy" for a full explanation. The policy prohibits:

    • Classified or restricted government documents
    • Documents that are designed to look like official documents but are actually fake
    • Fake certificates or diplomas

    None of my listings are restricted, classified or fake.
    Contact me with any questions at
    Thanks,
    Roger (FitToPrintStore)
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

    Going to his :About Me: page
    http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...nofmorningstar

    shows this picture:


    Lists this as feedback received as a buyer:
    http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...eedbackAsBuyer

    Including from this guy:
    http://myworld.ebay.com/jjmilitarycertificates/

    who sells Replacement Certificates. So I am guessing Roger has purchased from JJmilitary and scanned in his own copies for sale.

    Of note:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Special-Forces-G...QQcmdZViewItem
    I NOW HAVE THE ORIGINAL INSTITUTE FOR MILITARY ASSISTANCE EMBOSSER!! Also, I have the one for the United Nations.
    Cost me an arm and a leg!
  8. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2011 3:23am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Goju Ryu certificate at

    http://www.fittoprintstore.com/images/yamaguchi.jpg

    is “signed” (the last two columns on the left) “Zen Nihon Karate Do Goju Kai President Hanshi Yamaguchi Gogen” – a real person (though now deceased) and a real organization, but you can add your own name! Because the dates (birth date and date of award) are filled in already, it seems likely that this certificate once belonged to a real person whose name has been blanked out. As soon as the guy selling it fills in John Doe’s name, it’s a forgery – period; unless Yamaguchi Gosei has given permission for this; which is likely, isn’t it?

    Look at this one, too:

    http://www.fittoprintstore.com/image...%20peacock.jpg

    If there is such a person as Peter M. Javens, he’s been swindled rotten. The certificate is “signed” by “Sensei Sadaharu Fujimoto.” There is such a person, but he’s a Shito Ryu teacher, not Goju, and a real Japanese would say “Fujimoto Sadaharu Sensei”, not “Sensei Sadaharu Fujimoto” – you don’t have to be very knowledgeable to know that. The signature is the wrong way around in Japanese also. Once again, a real person’s name has been used on a fake certificate. A real Japanese would also know that the plural of “kata” is not “katas.” A fake, and not even a very clever one.
  9. HenryT is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2011 3:38am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Goju Kai Hombu Dojo is at:

    1793-97 Washington Avenue, San Leandro, California 94577

    Tel. (510) 351-9690

    Anybody live around there?
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2011 9:00am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sam is a lawyer asking you for information and answering your questions.
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