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  1. Coach Josh is online now
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    Silent Guardian

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2011 5:41pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  2. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2011 7:57pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Not really. Going flat is terrible, sure. But otherwise turtle isn't so bad (especially an under-sprawl posture) even in BJJ. It's much better than being under side control or mount - you can get back to guard, escape to your feet, etc.
    Oh yeah, I turtle all the time. I'm talking about the proper Judo belly-down, hands-in-collar position.
  3. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2011 7:32pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Even if de-emphasised, it'll still always be preferable to being pinned, whereas in BJJ it's preferable only to being submitted.
    You know, the guys I did Judo with coming up going flat or turtling was a huge mistake. Guaranteed armbar or choke to be applied. My primary instructor did no allow me to do either on pain of death. Or at least it seemed like death.

    I understand this is an uncommon attitude anymore, though.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2011 1:11pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    You know, the guys I did Judo with coming up going flat or turtling was a huge mistake. Guaranteed armbar or choke to be applied. My primary instructor did no allow me to do either on pain of death. Or at least it seemed like death.

    I understand this is an uncommon attitude anymore, though.

    Ben
    Sad but true. If you read any of the good Judo ne waza books, they say to not defend from the turtle (Best Judo, Vital Judo: Grappling, any of Kashiwazaki's books, etc.) You don't even seen turn overs from the flat position in older books.

    On the other hand, you do need to practice attacking the turtle because its such a common position.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2011 1:26pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    So I got this today in No-Gi. I noticed that when I apply it I tend to pull on the head as I press my hip forward. What do you think about applying the pressure that way instead of the rolling forward that you did in the video?
  6. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2011 9:00pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Sad but true. If you read any of the good Judo ne waza books, they say to not defend from the turtle (Best Judo, Vital Judo: Grappling, any of Kashiwazaki's books, etc.) You don't even seen turn overs from the flat position in older books.

    On the other hand, you do need to practice attacking the turtle because its such a common position.
    I had an old school japanese judo teacher in New Orleans. He did know and teach 3 or 4 attacks from turtle. But he didn't like people to turtle either.

    Attacking turtle off the transition, as Judoka_UK has posted about, is the best way. Attacking a static turtle (strong defense) uses a lot of energy, and is tactically often not the best use of energy in Judo match.

    I've seen guys wear themselves out trying set piece attacks against a strong defender (in matches).

    Unfortunately you are correct, turtling is so common in Judo it's pathetic, from a combative point of view. Little kids just fall down and flatten out, because they can't use submissions. The habit carries over into their adult Judo. Everybody does it, so nobody cares.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. Team Python is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2011 12:18am


     Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing

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    I use a certain technique to get the back of a person that gets in the tight turtle position. I will do a video on it for you guys if anybody is interested.
  8. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2011 2:11pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Python View Post
    I use a certain technique to get the back of a person that gets in the tight turtle position. I will do a video on it for you guys if anybody is interested.
    There are several "standard" methods used in Judo, I'm interested to see your take on it.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2011 2:28pm

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     Style: Judo

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    This is one I do from time to time.

  10. Coach Josh is online now
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    Silent Guardian

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2011 10:35pm

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     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Python View Post
    I use a certain technique to get the back of a person that gets in the tight turtle position. I will do a video on it for you guys if anybody is interested.
    I would like to see some also. I'm always in the mood to learn.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
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