Posted On:6/06/2011 4:20pm
Originally Posted by Hedgehogey
On that subject, why do people still teach this? I'm unsure if it's just one of those classical techniques you've gotta learn or if anyone still thinks it works in randori or shiai and i'm kindof scared of the answer.
Why do people still teach Juji gatame? You're trolling right? Or did you put the wrong link in?
1% Shark is better than you.
Posted On:6/06/2011 4:35pm
He may be talking about the first variation where uke is in hitch hiker escape position.
Posted On:6/06/2011 4:50pm
Yeh I worked that out from a simulpost he did on Judoforum.
Nah no one really teaches that at good Judo clubs. I trained with an old Japanese 5th dan for a while and he taught that transition, it felt fucking powerful when he did it, but its not something I teach my guys and its not something my coach teaches.
I've already posted on how you practice transitions into newaza where you don't land in a pin here.
Posted On:6/06/2011 4:58pm
Style: Judo & BJJ
Do you mean just that particular entry and version, or any of the one-leg-over jujigatame? I say this, because I learned the one-leg over version from a multiple-time Mundials champion. The particular finishing position in that picture isn't so great, though.
Posted On:6/06/2011 5:45pm
That particular version looks bad. It may be a still photos problem but even his positioning on the one leg over picture looks bad. From my perspective he is way to close to the head. Tori's body should be more perpendicular to uke. And his leg that is in the armpit looks too loose. The foot should be against Tori's ass and you need to REALLY squeeze your knees together if you only have one leg over. the leg over the head is too loose also, should be heel against Uke's ear.
The entry itself is silly because he bends the arm he is controlling toward the opposite hand which uke can use to grab and stop the armbar. Additionally if you have that much control over the top arm just go for a tea bag kimura.
Posted On:6/06/2011 5:59pm
I agree with all of the above, however, the moving of the arm point if you watch he gets the Ude garami grip when he does so and that means you have massive control over the arm and can unleash a whole load of grip breaks if you want.
Although its absolutely correct that you don't want to bring one hand too close to the other. That's pretty basic. As it allows uke to clasp the hands together and defend.
Here it is in action (Judoka_uk posted this on JF)
Neil O's is is not the best demonstration; he has artificial hips so cut him some slack.
It's a transition from a throw, which is why it may look weird. There are better looking versions in "Russian Judo" and "Armlocks", I think.
The starting position- holding the arm, kneeling on uke --is a common position in Judo following a throw. Camarillo calls it "impact control", and there are a lot of options from there presented in Guerrilla JJ.
The most important thing is this: in Judo uke is probably going to be rolling away from you, on to his belly, in order to avoid the pin. It's inefficient to switch to a Kimura from that position with those dynamics.
Posted On:6/06/2011 6:28pm
Style: BJJ, Libre, Street Boxing
Originally Posted by judoka_uk
90% of submission techniques are seen as equally often in BJJ as they are in Judo.
However, there are some that either through rule set or styles of fighting tend to appear more often in one style than the other Omoplata/Ude garami with the legs being more common in BJJ than Judo, Waki gatame/Armpit armbar(?) being more common in Judo than BJJ.
I thought it would be interesting to get some BJJ perspectives on the submissions that are usually more common in Judo.
These perspectives include the likes of:
The techniques I'd like to get perspectives on are:
Ude garami with the legs/ Keylock with the legs
Hiza gatame/ Knee armlock/Straight armlock
Waki gatame/Armpit armbar (?)
Sode guruma jime/ Ezekiel choke
Where possible please post simultaneous translations of technique names as this is a cross-style discussion thread.
Please use as many visual resources as you can to aid communication.
Waki Gatame can be used in the self defense applications of BJJ but not too much in competition or rolling (Randori). I do show a set up from a 2 on 1 or Russian grip that can get the Waki Gatame but it takes perfect timing.
Hiza gatame I use quite often. I favor the side mount (Kesa Gatame) but with my other arm underneath the arm pit cupping the shoulder. I have all kinds of set ups I use from the side mount from paper cutter chokes, arm bars, chokes and so on.
The Ezekiel I use a lot when in the mount position.
I am open minded so I use what I think will work whether it comes from Judo, Sambo, wrestling, or BJJ.
Posted On:6/06/2011 6:31pm
Originally Posted by Team Python
I have all kinds of set ups I use from the side mount from paper cutter chokes, arm bars, chokes and so on.
Would you mind expaniding upon this? As its someone of your calibre of experience and knowledge that I hoped to contribte to this thread.
Posted On:6/06/2011 6:32pm
Originally Posted by judoka_uk
Grip your knee/ grip underneath it.
And cup the elbow joint and squeeze hard with the armpit.
They're going to have a very tough time going anywhere let alone taking your back. Downside is that you have to release the control points/ pressure to go for a sub and that's when they can take the back.
That version of Kesa Gatame I will use if I fall into that position from a throw such as a head and arm throw. I like to grab their arm with my thumb pointing up and the arm resting on top of my shoulder though for a stronger control when I set a bicep choke (Head and Arm choke) from this position
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