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  1. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:16pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also called makura (pillow) kesa gatame.
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze View Post
    I'd hardly call it a gimmick, it's a solid technique that works well in a very specific set of circumstances.

    The video I posted, that was Tamerlan Tmenov... the guys he fights are hardly fucking chumps now.
    I wasn't calling the technique itself a gimmick (in fact, I think its one of the best unarmed techniques against a weapon). There's vids of Aoki breaking arms with a variation of it, so obviously it works. The gimmick part is the way I applied it, meaning I picked it up somewhere and would try it in free grappling without an extensive amount of drilling, setups, theory, refinements etc. Kinda the way lots of BJJ white belts get into 10th planet JJ techniques and use them as gimmicks- the techniques themselves may be perfectly good, but attempted by someone who saw it on the Internet or something. I learned it originally as a chin na techniqe, which is probably applied differently than wakigatame in judo.
  3. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:34pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In BJJ Omo Plata is best understood as a submission with no down side. If you can't get the tap you still get a sweep and even if you don't get the sweep perfectly you are at least closer to a top position. Saying "It seems an integral part of action reaction sequences in BJJ. " isn't quite accurate. It is one of those moves that some guys will always use and some guys will never use even at very high levels.
  4. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Is this Waki-Gatame?
    Yes it is.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:50pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Is it from under turtle? That is the move in the above video that I'm calling a sit out.
    You can do it while sitting out from turtle if uke is stupid enough to stick one or both arms in too far in.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Also called makura (pillow) kesa gatame.
    I always thought this was Makura Kesa Gatame. Officially, it's just another version of Kuzure Kesa Gatame.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    I'd still like to better understand Omega's version of Kesa that he thinks is secure enough for No-Gi. Unless I have the far side under hook I feel really exposed in No-Gi.
    Omega's control and sensitivity and ability to switch positions depending on what uke does enables him to do stuff like that.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    In BJJ Omo Plata is best understood as a submission with no down side. If you can't get the tap you still get a sweep and even if you don't get the sweep perfectly you are at least closer to a top position. Saying "It seems an integral part of action reaction sequences in BJJ. " isn't quite accurate. It is one of those moves that some guys will always use and some guys will never use even at very high levels.
    Thanks, I was wondering. I've experimented with it in Judo practice. Problem is in shiai at least chances for armbar from guard are not too common. In randori, it's a lot more useful.

    I think you stated what I meant by action reaction sequences. I just noticed that especially from guard, it is a technique that is drilled in sequence triangle-armbar-omoplato-sweep etc.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 4:05pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've heard makura kesa gatatme for both.

    One thing that tripped me up when I started Judo were pin entries that felt like armlock entries. I can't find a video, but there's one move in particular that feels like a jujigatame entry but is acutually a kesa gatame or yoko shiho gatame entry. Basically, you jam your forearm into the crook of the elbow to control it. It feels like tori should step over the head, but instead spins around into a pin.
  10. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 4:17pm

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     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On that subject, why do people still teach this? I'm unsure if it's just one of those classical techniques you've gotta learn or if anyone still thinks it works in randori or shiai and i'm kindof scared of the answer.


    "The only important elements in any society
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