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  1. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 2:37pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Is this Waki-Gatame?
    That's the one.
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 2:40pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I think Waki Gatame is kind of a holdover from older styles of ju jutsu.
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Waki gatame is a bit of a hangover from the old Jujutsu days where it was done standing up
    LOL great minds and all.

    Ok so if the BJJ guys don't really have any insights into Waki gatame apart from the reasonably obvious -its hard to do and difficult to complete because escapes are easy during prep stages.

    Perhaps its best if we stop going round in circles on it and picked their brains on some of the other subs.
  3. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 2:48pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Before we move on completely, there's a reason that the explosive/uncontrolled standing waki gatame (like Aoki's) and waki gatame falling directly into ground work (with the lock on) is banned in Judo: it's really, really dangerous.
  4. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 2:54pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    LOL great minds and all.

    Ok so if the BJJ guys don't really have any insights into Waki gatame apart from the reasonably obvious -its hard to do and difficult to complete because escapes are easy during prep stages.

    Perhaps its best if we stop going round in circles on it and picked their brains on some of the other subs.
    Waki Gatame is harder to do because as noted the lack of more solid body control. It's like the Sumi Otoshi of armbars, to make a odd analogy. Thus, using speed can be used to make up for the lack of control. Which leads to Res Judicata's post.

    If you are just trying to control a weapon-holding arm or just break it from standing, or force someone to their face, Waki Gatame (or Hara Gatame) work pretty well. Higher percentage than a wrist technique.

    Of course, you can combine wrist/shoulder/elbow as in one of the moves in Goshin Jutsu. That one hurts like hell.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:03pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I was doing submission grappling a few years ago, waki gatame was something I could pull off on a person once or twice, then they wouldn't let it happen again. Kinda like a lot of gimmick submissions. I wasn't schooled in all its intricacies and setups, though.
  6. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:04pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd still like to better understand Omega's version of Kesa that he thinks is secure enough for No-Gi. Unless I have the far side under hook I feel really exposed in No-Gi.
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:06pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Ashi Sankaku Garami (Omo Plata/o) is the odd ball from the Judo perspective. Exists in Judo, but rarely seen, especially before the advent of BJJ in the US. It seems an integral part of action reaction sequences in BJJ.

    It is also one in which the apparent lower control factor comes into play.

    How often does it work as a submission in BJJ?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:08pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    When I was doing submission grappling a few years ago, waki gatame was something I could pull off on a person once or twice, then they wouldn't let it happen again. Kinda like a lot of gimmick submissions. I wasn't schooled in all its intricacies and setups, though.
    I'd hardly call it a gimmick, it's a solid technique that works well in a very specific set of circumstances.

    The video I posted, that was Tamerlan Tmenov... the guys he fights are hardly fucking chumps now.
  9. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:13pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Ashi Sankaku Garami (Omo Plata/o) is the odd ball from the Judo perspective. Exists in Judo, but rarely seen, especially before the advent of BJJ in the US. It seems an integral part of action reaction sequences in BJJ.

    It is also one in which the apparent lower control factor comes into play.

    How often does it work as a submission in BJJ?
    The funny thing is that Kashiwazaki calls it a very common position in his shimewaza(?) book. It rarely works as a submission, in my experience. It's usually easy to roll out of it. There are ways to prevent that, but that's the practical reality.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2011 3:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    I'd still like to better understand Omega's version of Kesa that he thinks is secure enough for No-Gi. Unless I have the far side under hook I feel really exposed in No-Gi.
    Grip your knee/ grip underneath it.



    And cup the elbow joint and squeeze hard with the armpit.

    They're going to have a very tough time going anywhere let alone taking your back. Downside is that you have to release the control points/ pressure to go for a sub and that's when they can take the back.
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