6/06/2011 1:13pm, #11
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Richmond, VA
These submissions in my experience are too low percentage because the chance of the opponent to escape on the bottom is higher in kesa than in say a kuzure-kesa-gatame. The underhook is needed to control your opponents body more effectively yet you sacrifice offensive capabilities to submit your opponent using these submissions.
For me at least it's a matter of ROI, am I getting the most here? Or sacrificing too much for very little return. Same reason I don't do flying triangles.
6/06/2011 1:30pm, #12
Yeah thats what I mean about Waki-Gatame. I gotta have someone that knows how to do it try on me. It seems like you can roll out of it in the early stages.
One of the videos posted was basically a sit-out to Waki-Gatame. Normally you try for a back take after a sit-out so in that case you are clearly sacrificing 4 points for what appears to be a low percentage sub.
6/06/2011 1:54pm, #13
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- W. Yorks, UK
6/06/2011 2:10pm, #14
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
Rolling out can be bad. You can ude garami yourself if you try. I speak from experience.
Look at the competition examples at the end of this video:
6/06/2011 2:14pm, #15
I don't think any of the BJJ guys are questioning the fact that once the arm is fully out and under control you either tap or it goes snap.
6/06/2011 2:28pm, #16
6/06/2011 2:29pm, #17
You have to move towards uke head to keep control. Most people just try to sit down in place, so uke can roll out. Also, tori has to be prepared for the escape move and transition to a pin or another submission. I think Waki Gatame is kind of a holdover from older styles of ju jutsu.
Waki Gatame is pretty unusual in Judo as well, don't see it much at all.Falling for Judo since 1980
"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS
6/06/2011 2:31pm, #18
6/06/2011 2:32pm, #19
I think people have tried to integrate ways to put it into groundwork, but most of them are based around behaviour that only makes sense within the Judo ruleset. I.e when uke is in Kesa gatame they roll into tori trying to belly out and that's when tori catches the arm and puts on Waki gatame.
I'm trying to upload a video of it being put on by Hwang of Korea as part of a turnover sequence, but my video editor is being gay.
6/06/2011 2:36pm, #20
Is it from under turtle? That is the move in the above video that I'm calling a sit out.