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  1. NoTeefa is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2011 5:29pm


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Leg/body kicks in the cage, risk vs reward

    My ability to throw head kicks with both legs has always been something that has forced my sparring partners to respect me, but I'm hearing more and more stories about fighters breaking their legs in the cage. It seems modern mma fighter's shins just aren't as conditioned as old school kickboxer's especially Thai.
    If you factor in the risk of breaking your leg throwing a leg kick or getting your leg/body kick caught, the risk vs reward ratio seems to be a little off. I absolutely adore kicking and getting tricky with it, wheel kick, kick combos etc, but I'm realizing more and more how limited of a place they have in MMA. My favorite fight by my favorite fighter was Penn vs. Sanchez, knowing diego was going to try to catch his kicks and take him down, Penn threw one kick the whole damn fight and split Diego's head open, it was sick!
    I guess my point is I think I'm going to start throwing less leg kicks except as feints (superman punches, feint cut kick to right cross etc) and start really really focusing on boxing, clinch, kneees and takedown defense. I've been way to amused by kicking thus far in my life, If I get into a self defense situation I'll probably be wearing Jeans!
    I recently moved and started training with a new group of people, I've taken over as their main instructor, because the guy who started it is a good boxer but doesn't know much kickboxing, clinch, and jiu jitsu. A lot of these guys tend to be really kick happy in sparring, leading off with these big obvious switch kick thrown with their hands down and other stupidity. At first I was trying to help them kick harder and use their kicks more effectively, but maybe this isn't the best way to train them. Perhaps I should be teaching them how to catch kicks, check kicks and punch over kicks....
    I'm curious what ya'll think on the subject
  2. Kickapoo is offline
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    Sick double leg.

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2011 7:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is this really becoming a common thing? The tibia is the strongest weight bearing bone in the body and barring some strange accidents I've seen I don't really think people's legs are snapping like matchsticks in the cage. I assumed you meant the tibia, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you talk about someone's 'leg' being broken.

    I'm loathe to make general recommendations about MMA but I do not see the harm in having solid kicks in your arsenal. You do not have to use them, but I would still train them enough that your opponent should fear the threat of them. Forrest Griffin does a great job using them in MMA and Pat Barry's last fight was the closest to lumberjacking by shin I have seen in a while.
    "That was the only way you could destroy me. Neither do I quail at death nor act in deference to any god. So drop your talk, I come resolved to die. But first, there are these gifts I bring for you." At once he hurled a javelin at his enemy, then sent another and another still straight to the mark. - Virgil's The Aeneid
  3. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2011 8:51pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just start cut kicking people and drop them on their ass when they kick. Some will stop high kicking and some will learn how to time them better.
  4. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2011 10:04pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wouldn't throw less leg kicks if i were you, I'm finding them to be even more beneficial in MMA sparring. Go back to the basic use of leg kicks, kick them when they're moving. You can either destroy their balance with an inside leg kick as they step forward, or do a damaging outside leg kick and move off (which is dam hard to check when you have your weight on it). I'm finding with the prevalence of fast boxing footwork and wider stances that the opportunity for leg kicks is immense.

    If they are being stupid enough to try and catch your leg kicks I'll tell you my favorite trick. Use a variation of the Brazilian (question mark) kick where you fake a kick to their leg and then whip it up to the head. You'll catch them with their hand down and even better yet leaning into the kick.

    Head kick wise I'm throwing them as counters to punches and as just about every 3rd technique i use in combos, haven't had any issue with people catching them. In fact head kicks seem to really scare a lot of the fighters at my gym, they seem unsure how to properly block them.

    Rib kicks I'm having mixed luck with, when i set them up really well by getting them turned side on with an aggressive punch combination its a sure TKO but at any other time I usually end on my arse.

    Teeps, well maybe someone can tell me how to use these in MMA because i fail at it. I'm considering using side kicks instead.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  5. No.1_Son is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2011 10:17pm


     Style: BJJ & MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would think a teep to the quads of the standing leg while your opponent is kicking would be great, and should arrive sooner than their cut kick. Also to the hip as a counter to the rare sidekick.

    The above are just ideas and not to be taken as expert advise.
  6. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2011 10:30pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are more effective counters to roundhouse kicks though, a simple straight punch lands more often than not and really fucks people up when you are using mma gloves.

    You can use it to counter sidekicks? I've been having issues with these.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  7. Neo Sigma is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2011 8:28am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, the simple fact of it is, is that most MMA guys have pretty bad striking. Judging the usefulness of kicks by that isn't a great idea. Their kicks get caught because they don't set them up and just wing them out there. Saying you're going to kick less because you don't want them to get caught is like saying you're not going punch that much anymore because you saw Leonard Garcia fight and that obviously means that punches are easy to avoid. I'll give you that body kicks tend to get caught more frequently, but the arms being right there means you could almost catch them by accident. Also, jeans don't mean you can't kick. I tossed up a head kick on a bag a while back wearing jeans just to see if I could, and it worked fine.

    The answer to this is not to shrug and say "well, okay, I'll just kick less and teach people how to counter them instead." You know what that sounds like? A kung fu/ninja dipstick going "I don't need to learn how to grapple, I'll just stop his takedown." Seriously, learn how to a)kick properly and b)use them properly and you'll have much more success. Like anything else, they have their place and time.
  8. NoTeefa is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2011 12:20pm


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its interesting, I've been watching some kickboxing highlights since posting this and realized that even in the different ruleset, these guys are wayyy better at setting up their leg kicks than the average MMA fighter... hmmm... I guess I should've expected that..
    Can we at least agree that initiating attacks with kicks in MMA is asking for trouble?
  9. NoTeefa is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2011 12:27pm


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickapoo View Post
    Is this really becoming a common thing? The tibia is the strongest weight bearing bone in the body and barring some strange accidents I've seen I don't really think people's legs are snapping like matchsticks in the cage. I assumed you meant the tibia, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you talk about someone's 'leg' being broken.

    I'm loathe to make general recommendations about MMA but I do not see the harm in having solid kicks in your arsenal. You do not have to use them, but I would still train them enough that your opponent should fear the threat of them. Forrest Griffin does a great job using them in MMA and Pat Barry's last fight was the closest to lumberjacking by shin I have seen in a while.
    I may just be over reacting to reading a few different stories in the same week, the incidents themselves were probably spread out.
    I guess the focus should be to really focus on your opponents balance and footwork and try to catch them when they're retreating or flat footed.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2011 12:31pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've got my own ideas about leg checks and kicks in MMA. I've been quite successful with my kicking approach everybody's so muay thai orientated that I can't get them to see other perspectives.
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