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  1. Spunky is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:07am


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Throws ARE painfully easy to stop, which is why they are best to use when the circumstances hand it to you. Any technique will work if the opportunity presents itself, the hard part is learning to recognize those opprtunities. I would place this above trying to create opprtunity, because you pass so many by trying to chase down a technique.

    So learn the throws and takedowns, more importantly learn the conditions under which they exist rather than how to "make" them happen. Then when you are in a fight, you might see someone halfway into what a particular throw would do, all you have to do is enter and finish it. No fight there. Just my two cents, but that's when they become useful. Effective? Dropping someone from a few feet up onto concrete?
  2. NHB_Ben is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:09am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Hannibal
    Hell, to counter a throw is not hard. My Bujinkan (ninjutsu) instructer knew heaps of ways to defed against a throw. You guys pay out ninjutsu. But I can tell you know if you tried to throw any of the guys I trained with, you'd get owned no doubt about it. Unless of coarse your a national judo champion or something along those lines.

    I usually try to be pretty level headed with people; but, Hannibal, it seems you have a very distorted perspective of reality. The average judoka (which is, in all reality the same as the average wrestler) is *very* tough. Saying that only 'olympic level' athletes are capable of matching your former (and correct me if I'm wrong here) non-olympic level trainer partners is completely absurd.
  3. NHB_Ben is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:11am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Spunky
    Throws ARE painfully easy to stop, which is why they are best to use when the circumstances hand it to you. Any technique will work if the opportunity presents itself, the hard part is learning to recognize those opprtunities. I would place this above trying to create opprtunity, because you pass so many by trying to chase down a technique.
    Painfully easy to stop my ass. Apparantly, you've never trained with a judoka or wrestler. Imagine one of the wrestlers from your highschool or college. Now imagine hopping on the mat with them and then saying "You're going to be painfully easy to stop."

    At the same time, searching to hit a particular technique is stupid.
  4. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Greese 1 and Whiteshark, **** you both dipshits. Just becausen I don't automatically hop on the grappling must beat striking bandwagon and my opinions differ to both of yours does not make me wrong. I've seen it before between martial arts 'rough housing' you know people from various arts try to test out what they know on others from other arts.Some friends of mine cross trained and we liked to get together to share ideas,pad work sparring and so forth. ANyway after getting someone on the ground, yeah Judo id great. But **** approaching a conditioed striker and trying to apply a Judo hold is suicide. Before you can get your hands on the other guys hes alrady shin kicked and elbow smashed the hell out of you. Don't tell me it dosen't happen. I've seen it happen.Oh and one of my friends spars on a regular basic with the Judo olympic team, the other is a muay thai fighter with 6 amatear fights under his belt. Trust me they ain't pushovers.
    Last edited by Hannibal; 3/25/2004 5:14am at .
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  5. NHB_Ben is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:17am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Hannibal
    But **** approaching a conditioed striker and trying to apply a Judo hold is suicide. Before you can get your hands on the other guys hes alrady shin kicked and elbow smashed the hell out of you.
    I call Bullshit .

    To back this, I present to you:

    1) Gracies in action (watch how many takedowns they get)
    2) Any UFC/Pride Wrestler that has beat a striker
    3) Any successfull ground grappler that doesn't pull guard (have to get to the ground somehow, don't they?)
  6. NHB_Ben is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:21am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, and another quick pointer, Hannibal: Most (>95%) of Judo fighters consider themselves better stand-up fighters than ground fighters. Discounting judo standup and trying to use it as a replacement for BJJ. That's like saying the strikes of boxing are useless, you're just taking it to improve your cardio.
  7. Spunky is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:46am


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Apparantly, you've never trained with a judoka or wrestler.
    Um, well, I actually have, but they must have been lousy cuz not being one myself I clearly don't know **** about taking someone down.

    Okay... sass aside, you know there are certain mechanics that go into a throw. If you notice the person is attempting a throw, rather than directly fight it (we all know how that goes) you displace to a position that negates those mechanics. Do it as the guy enters and take his balance. It's really not that huge of a concept and I'm sure just about everyone has some technique to demonstrate it. I'm not saying the guy dies when you counter the throw :), obviously it continues, what I'm sayingis if someone just tries to disbalance and throw you from a balanced position it is not difficult to stop *that* throw.

    e.g. someone enters seoi nage, settle your hips down and beside his as he attempts his kuzushi to cancel the leverage, from there it is pretty easy to pop him in the kidney or strike down into the hip bowl. There's obviously a necessary timing because its best if he feels he has you for a moment. Now if you are already stumbling toward or overcommitted in that direction and he takes seoi nage as a continuation of your present motion (ie, the throw presents itself), you're better off receiving it and trying to do something on the way over. Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious here, I almost hope I am.

    And erm, the examples provided by NHB Ben aren't usually situations where the victor made use of a judo grip/throw.
  8. drunkenj is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 5:50am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hannibal, once you start doing judo, i guarantee you will change your tune. As for throws being easy to stop, thats equivalent to saying that punches are really easy to block, one might be in isolation--- but you're gonna get nailed with a combo or a fake
  9. SMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 6:01am


     Style: Delusional Idiocy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hannibal is trolling you all, he changes his fucked up opinion everyday. Its tailor made to piss people off. He also emulates the opinions of respected posters and fucks up the details in a misguided attempt to get on their side or somethin. Tis all very weird.
  10. J-kid is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2004 6:04am


     Style: MMA-Vale Tudo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will **** your ninjas up....
    Once a fighter, Always a fighter. Shawn
    -Styles i train in-
    Judo
    Bjj
    Mtkickboxing
    Western boxing
    Wrestling
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